BART to Warm Springs construction to begin
- 08.24.09, 19:10
- 85 Comments
After securing a bid 45% lower than originally estimated, the tunnel portion of Warm Springs extension has been given the go-ahead by BART. The tunnel will extend southeast from the existing Fremont BART station, underneath man-made Lake Elizabeth, before turning south to occupy the former Western Pacific rail right-of-way. The only station to be built is Warm Springs, which will also be the future southern terminus until construction on the extension to San Jose/Silicon Valley begins. Another station in the Irvington district is currently unfunded. The complete estimated cost for the 5.4-mile extension is $890 million.
It’s odd that one of the reasons for building the Warm Springs station at the planned location, NUMMI, will probably not be around for the opening in 2014. It’s also likely that nothing will have replaced the auto plant by the time the station opens. Lew Wolff has rejected any idea of revisiting Fremont for the time being.
…Perhaps they should play the Talking Heads' "Road to Nowhere" as a tribute to the usefulness of this BART extension. NUMMI looks to be a goner and the NIMBYs killed the A's-to-Warm Springs idea. So who is going to use this extension? Can somebody fill me in?…
It's not really for the Mission-area residents since they largely campaigned against the station location, so-called "criminal element" and all. There are tons of other light industrial jobs in the area, but nothing compares to NUMMI. It looks like it'll be a commuter station. At least it's one step closer to Santa Clara County.
…might this BART station become the equivalent of the CalTrain Atherton and College Park stations? So lightly used they were either shut down completely or used only a few times a week? An A's ballpark would have helped maximize use of this expensive new rail station. But of course, neighbors didn't want anything to do with the A's and the "light pollution" and traffic they would produce for 3 hours on 81 nights a year. Remember the NIMBY campaign: "Kids first – No Ballpark." I remember when baseball was supposed to be something good for kids. Now it's an unwanted land use, like a sewage treatment plant. At San Jose City College, neighbors recently were able to stop construction of a new baseball field for the college team – with lots of money already spent on it. Instead, it will be used for cricket and soccer. Huh?…
I doubt it. The land there has too much potential for it to remain empty long term. There is pent up demand in Fremont for a second station, as evidenced by the lack of parking at Fremont BART on weekdays.
A prediction: If the San Jose dream dies, Pac Commons springs back to life almost immediately. Whatever problems exist there are nothing compared with the obstacles, financial and otherwise, to building a new yard in Oakland or outside the Bay Area.
If tunneling is currently available for half-price, they should do whatever it takes to get the downtown SJ tunnel dug immediately. That alone would go a long ways toward making the whole project pencil out.
Warm Springs station will get some use from South Bay A's and Raiders fans, if no one else. Those of us who currently drive to Fremont will drive to WS instead. In the long run though, the WS station itself is less important than extending the line southward.
I raily think the A's should move to Sacramento. The A's have the lowest home attendance in the big leagues while Sacramento raily supports their team. The A's raily do have a low fan base in the bay area and would be much better served going to a growing area which they wouldn't have to share. They'd raily be much better off.
re: I raily think the A's should move to Sacramento.
…How about the Giants move there instead? If the A's leave, where will we go to see World Series Championship flags? I think Sacramento has been looked at and dismissed as a market for MLB.
In the early 1990s, when the A's were outdrawing the Giants at the Box Office, it was believed the Giants would leave the Bay Area. Perhaps they still can…
The A's won't move to Sacramento because the Rivercats play there. It's too much of a hassle to relocate a team to the same city as their triple A affiliate. Keep the A's in Oakland.
The low attendance numbers is not because the A's don't have fans in the Bay. It's a collection of many things. The worst ballpark in the league. One of the nicest ballparks was built across the Bay for the Giants. The new players that we constantly sign to one year deals and then trade away. The big name players that we only sign for one year deals and then trade away. And for the simple fact that our owner sucks ass big time and knows absolutely nothing about the game of baseball. The only thing he knows is how to "try" and make money and how to build hotels, not run a MLB franchise.
Lew Wolff did not buy the A's because he loves the game, but because he figured he could make money by building a "ballpark village."
Anon 920,
I "raily think you should do some research and read through ML's blog a few times before stating such ridiculous commentary.
Sac will be lucky if they can hold on to the kings.
MLB? PLEASE!
Sacramento isn't a realistic place to put a ball team. There is a single Fortune 1000 Company in the market (McClatchy) and that is in a dying industry (Newspapers).
The median income of the local population is not the same as the Bay Area.
The Bay Area is 3 times as large as Sacramento.
In short, Sacramento is a lot like Kansas City. With less corporate support.
The A's should be playing in a new stadium in either Oakland or San Jose. Period.
+1 Paul
"Lew Wolff did not buy the A's because he loves the game, but because he figured he could make money by building a 'ballpark village.'"
Hahaha, you think one real estate venture is worth buying a major league franchise? Was Wolff going to uproot the A's from Fremont once he sold off all units just so he could build another ballpark village and make more money in this alleged manner? Wow, what a clever plan! I'm sure it would have worked: constantly build baseball stadia to sell some condos. Genius!
So anon 12:30, do you really believe that he's a baseball guy? That he knew a lot about the history of the A's before he decided to buy the team?? I seriously doubt it! Remember we're talking about a guy who had no idea who Rickey Henderson was. Yeah he's a real baseball genius!
"Baseball guy" and understanding of the A's history are two different things.
I have grown up an A's fan, if I was well heeled enough someday and bought say, the Cleveland Indians. I wouldn't know much about the team though I love baseball.
I bet if you asked Lew Wolff something about Stan Musial, Bob Gibson, Harry Caray's days calling Cardinals games, etc. He would be able to talk in great detail about it.
But a better question for everyone here is, what does any of the back and forth bullshit about Lew Wolff, Oakland, San Jose or anything else have to do with Warm Springs BART?
Nothing around here has much to do with anything about reality, that's for sure. First off all we ever heard was that Fremont was a done deal and was the best thing since sliced bread, don't even bother questioning the logic. Now San Jose is the maifest destiny and if you don't buy into it, you're full of mularky. When that gets shot down, I'll be it's back to the Coliseum parking lot and if you didn't see that from the beginning, you're dumb as a wart.
I go on record as saying Wolff will never, ever get a ballpark built … he'll eventually (within a year or so) sell off his share of the franchise and we'll never hear from the little man again.
Having an anon "go on record" is like saying the birthers have a good argument.
Oh, sorry … my name is Chris … I guess now I'm official. Yeah!
Chris–whats "dumb as a wart" is to believe that any private investor will invest $500M of their money to build in the Coli parking lot–
"Reality" is the city of Oakland and county of Alameda can't afford the infratstructure improvements as well as a publically financed stadium-
Wolff may sell—but it won't change the reality of keeping the team in Oakland–they're there until a "new" there is found–and hopefully that "new" there is in nor cal–but it ain't ever gonna be Oakland without a huge public investment
Jeffery,
I don't care if you own the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Nationals and especially the A's for that matter. If you're even remotely knowledgeable about baseball, then you know who the heck Rickey Henderson is…especially if you own the frickin' A's!!
Notice nobody stays on topic. It's because nobody cares.
re: Having an anon "go on record" is like saying the birthers have a good argument.
…am I the only one here who has no idea what this means? What's a birther?
A birther is an individual who despite the evidence, refuses to believe that President Obama is a natural-born citizen of the USA, and thus believes that his presidency is illegitimate. I'll stop there.
… or someone who despite all the evidence to the contrary believes that Wolff is ever going to secure the A's a new ballpark.
you can think if it as…conspiracy theories, x-files, santa claus and theeaster bunny….
I love the nobody cares comment… then don't read it.
8:11 – That made absolutely no sense. Thanks for trying.
ML–in an attempt to take this back to Bart–when you were on your walking tour was there any discussion about trying to do the tunneling in downtown SJ for Bart near term—I know that the funds are not necessarily there now–but with bids at 50% below what was expected and trying to avoid an on-going construction zone at some point in the future-
No chance of SJ tunneling happening before the Milpitas/Berryessa sections of the extension are started. Besides there's no comparison. The tunneling portion in Fremont will be under undeveloped land. In SJ massive amounts of cut-and-cover will be required for the two stations, plus tunnel boring for rest of the tracks along Santa Clara St. There's no getting around how expensive it will be.
ok–diverting the subject but curious what ever happened to the Hammer/Mulchay (sp?) team focused on broadening business support for the A's move to SJ—other than being announced and having them support it at a council meeting via public comments I have never heard another thing? Is their work done—at least for now?
Whenever I see someone here use phrases like Anon 5:15, I wonder if they are referring to scriptural passages.
You're not going to see the PR machine (including Mulcahy/Hammer) until we get closer to election time. They're getting numerous pieces in place in preparation.
Jeffrey the comment was meant in meaning nobody cares that much about the warm springs bart construction, everyone just goes off topic to what they want to talk about.
NUMMI officially dead after March 2010 – announced today.
…What a nice spot for an A's ballpark that would be. Empty land right there; a new BART extension and excellent highway access. And NUMMI, one of the biggest whiners against previous stadium proposals, would be out of the way. I suppose, though, the NIMBYs will object to the NUMMI site, on grounds that a wayward seagull might pick up a hot dog wrapper from the stands and drop it on one of their lawns.
Remember: "Kids First – No Ballpark!"
(Have to wonder once again if the big-box retailers, who whined about A's fans using their parking lots, apparently oblivious that some of them might actually buy some merchandise from their stores, are pondering what their quarterly sales figures will be once the NUMMI employees are gone from the neighborhood. They should have plenty of empty space in their parking lots, now. Enough to hold roller hockey tournaments, I suppose.)
ML–whats your take on the lawsuit to review HSR thru Pacheco Pass and into SJ—one of many to come or is this something of significance?
Wow. Bummer news about NUMMI.
There will be other suits. Better to get this out of the way now instead of later. It needs to be made perfectly clear that this "writ of mandate" doesn't threaten the entire project. It focuses largely on the segment between Diridon Station and Gilroy, which is important because the ballpark is immediately south of the station. It's possible that some amount of land will be acquired for the HSR project because HSR may not be able to use the UPRR ROW. It could be as much as a 70' strip. The train could also run under the ballpark.
Where there ridership estimates with regards to NUMMI employees? How much of a drop in projected ridership should BART expect?
ugh, "were" not "where"
Shouldn't we have heard something by now from the "Blue Ribbon Panel" looking at Oakland and the East Bay?
We should know something by December.
Association of Bay Area Goverments released study today that Bay Area population will grow another 1.7 M people in next 25 yrs and will need another 635,000 housing units to meet demand – and most of that demand will be infill development, not " exurb" tracts as commute costs will be so high by then.
So land sites like Pac Commons and Nummi will be worth a lot because they are " Bay Centric " to the job engine that will continue to be Silicon Valley .
No one would ever admit to it, but the postponed San Jose vote has allowed MLB to take its time. Expect something around Winter meeting time.
did the posponed SJ vote influence MLB or did MLB influence SJ to wait on its vote–and with that–whats the speculation relative to support of other MLB owners–
The postponement of the SJ vote only help Oakland that much more. We know MLB (including Commissioner Selig) has been meeting with Oakland Officials and so far so good from what I've been told from my source.
With SJ pushing their vote until next year, that allows Oakland to continue to make more progress with their plans. Seeing how the A's aren't even allowed to have any kind of discussions with a possible move to SJ, that just helps Oakland's cause that much more.
The A's will most likely remain in Oakland where they belong.
11:46 – It's a chicken-and-egg situation.
12:20 – If what you're saying is true, then Selig in fact isn't trying to "Montrealize" the A's. What would the tinfoil hatters say?
I don't much care if it's Oakland or San Jose. One or the other is fine. What I think might be happening, though, is the committee is dotting all the "i's" and crossing all the "t's" for when it comes out with a recommendation that Oakland, Alameda County and Contra Costa County have nothing to offer. Then the league can move ahead with San Jose.
Oakland city officials can pitch different properties, but the problems still remain: lack of a significant corporate base and no public contribution available from Oakland. They can go to other places in Alameda and Contra Costa and have doors slammed in their faces just like in Fremont.
"Would you be willing to have a ballpark in (name small city here)?"
Response "No way, jack."
San Jose is sitting there ready and waiting.
Anon 12:20–at the end of the day MLB/Selig could say A's stay in Oakland–but it doesn't mean that LW will invest $500M in a private ballpark–or for that matter–that anyone else would be crazy enough to do that-
With a $20M annual rent payment already in play, a football team that wants a new publically financed stadium and sites that require significant investment by the city to acquire the land and move existing facilities—better hope for lots of stimulus funding—because if its Oaktown it only means status quo for the next 10 years before a new ownership group tries to move them….and of course that is 10 years of subsidized baseball at $35M/year—thank you very much other MLB owners–
So explain again why they would pick status quo in Oakland?
Anon 12:20–pushing back the vote for SJ is also beneficial to their efforts–Mayor Reed wants a November 2010 initiative–by this time the economy should be in better shape, raid on the redevelopment agency funds over, designs for how HSR, Bart and a proposed ballpark mesh will be more clear, and the opportunity to manage public concerns via the neighborhood meetings that are currently underway. Remember you don't just acquire land,develop concepts, complete EIR's, find money for infrastrucutre improvements, gain support of local neighborhood groups etc overnight. SJ has been acquiring land since 2005,has completed one EIR with the revision expected in the next 60 days, neighborhood groups are already developed and working on potential concerns–identifying a potential site is the easy part—buying the property and completing the EIR is when things start getting tough–expecially when a city as poor as Oakland is expected to come up with the money to buy the land–
and thats before you even get to how to build the ballpark—a one year delay in the vote in SJ has no bearing either way–and no matter how much time Oakland has—it ain't gonna pencil out unless there is a charitable individual or organization willing to pick up the tab-
Anon1220,
Can you prove that Selig has been talking to Oakland pols? News links, facts, etc.?
Or are you just talking out of your rear!? Probably.
Definitely won't hear from MLB until after the season/World Series.