News for 8/30/11
- 08.30.11, 16:48
- 134 Comments
There’s a little back-and-forth between the Chargers and a LA-based blogger who has concluded that AEG is buying 96% of the team from the Spanos family, with the intent of moving the franchise to a new downtown LA stadium. Chargers spokesperson Mark Fabiani has said unequivocally that the team will not be sold.
Tim Kawakami has done some back-of-the-envelope numbers on financing for the 49ers stadium and has come up with many of the same conclusions written here a year ago.
Chron sports editor Al Saracevic reports on a new parking study commissioned by a SF Planning Commissioner takes issue with the 49ers stadium EIR’s assessment that parking inventory will be “equal to or superior to any in the NFL.” Considering the way this new study was derived, the results have to be taken with a grain of salt. However, that’s not to say that there aren’t good points. I’m absolutely certain that tailgating, of the kind Niner fans currently experience at the ‘Stick, will be practically extinct. It’ll be largely replaced by team-sponsored fan zones and other tailgating facsimiles.
BANG is asking fans to submit suggestions as to how the Raiders can increase attendance in Oakland. Send responses to turn2@angnewspapers.com or ccnsports@bayareanewsgroup.com.
A fan fell down a stairwell at Rangers Ballpark on Saturday. The unidentified 24 year-old man was knocked unconscious by the fall and remains in a local hospital.
I want take this opportunity to address something discussed in the last comments thread. There’s an opinion – generally espoused by Rick Tittle – that the A’s should spend money on the Coliseum to make things a little more fan friendly. Tittle frequently cites the investment made by Peter Magowan when he assumed control of the Giants as a good example. It sounds good in theory, but it doesn’t explain how this would work. Let’s get a few facts out of the way regarding what the Giants did:
- The Giants spent $5 million in 1994 to add new LF bleachers, field boxes, the outfield fence, and the out-of-town scoreboard above the RF pavilion.
- The money also went toward replacing the dirt warning track with the rubberized “tartan” surface. After all, you can’t have high rollers in field boxes stepping on dirt to reach their seats, or have wind-blown dust in their eyes.
- In 2011 dollars, the inflation-adjusted value would be $8 million or less.
We’ve talked a lot about what it would take to spruce up the Coli, even to the point of fans initiating the effort since we can’t expect the A’s, Raiders, or Coliseum Authority to do it. We’ve heard that the Coliseum Authority may be replacing the obsolete scoreboard system, which is a good and necessary move. However, there aren’t many other changes that could be made that wouldn’t adversely impact either the A’s or the Raiders. Consider this:
- I’ve suggested in the past that the best way to expand the lower concourse is to take out the last 3-4 rows of the field level seats and make new platforms for wheelchair seating areas and standing room sections. Doing this would remove 3,000+ seats, which would drop the Coliseum’s capacity below 60,000, below NFL guidelines. I can’t imagine either the Raiders or the NFL going for that, even if the Raiders don’t routinely sell out the joint.
- The A’s can’t add more seats on the field because space is taken by the dugouts, the existing field boxes, the rolled up field tarp, and the bullpens.
- The A’s can’t reduce foul territory by reconfiguring the lower deck without major engineering and construction challenges.
- The Coliseum does actually have some modern amenities, such as the West Side Club and the Diamond Level seats.
- As much as people complain about the troughs in the men’s restrooms, the decision to keep those in place was made in 1995. Have you ever noticed that the troughs have those sensors above that can tell when you’re finished and then flush? That’s the extent of change in the original restrooms.
- It’s possible that the A’s could invest in expanding the clubhouse facilities, but I don’t know what complexities lie in attempting that.
Now let’s say that you own the A’s, and like what Magowan did 17 years ago, you’d like to spend $8 million, no, up to $10 million on the Coliseum to improve the experience. Take the scoreboards off the table. What would you improve? Do you have any idea how much it would cost? Is there a decent chance you’d recoup that investment? One thing to keep in mind is that when Wally Haas sunk money into the Coliseum, he was eventually paid back by the Coliseum Commission. He eventually saw greater revenues during the Bash Brothers era, but was unable to sustain that in the long run. Many of the current deficiencies with the Coliseum can’t and won’t be addressed by quick fixes.
Before you chime in, read this ESPN article about the A’s and their relationship with the Coliseum by Mark Kreidler, one of the “Rise Guys” brought in from Sacramento a month ago. Then look at the date. Some things never change.
Selig won’t force anyone to build in Oakland because the Giants are 12 miles way. The $$ does not make sense for a privately financed ballpark so close to ATT.
MLB would have to subsidize the A’s even more because the debt service would kill the team slowly.
Hence why Selig won’t force Wolff or anyone to build in Oakland. The question is can the A’s build in San Jose that is being posed. Oakland can go forward anytime but $$ wise it does not make sense to do it privately.
Now if Oakland offered a public ballpark Selig would push Wolff towards that….Not happening unfortunately.
In that scenario you would see the Giants “sell” San Jose in a heartbeat. A ballpark 12 miles away would hurt the Giants far more and they know it….They block San Jose because they know full well Oakland is impossible and it is their chance to kick them out.
Selig in his own old school mind hates privately financed ballparks and hates Oakland in general for even having the A’s in the first place. This plus 2 private ballparks in the same market? He loathes it 100% and to him that is the last ditch scenario….hence the delay.
The A’s only stay in the Bay Area regardless of ownership if all else fails and Selig has no choice but to open up San Jose.
Selig would rather relocate the A’s out of the Bay Area rather than reverse the Giants T-rights. Until the moment that is not possible nothing will happen period.
902 days tells you that loud and clear…
Whatever Sid. (Yeah! That’s why Lew and Keith Wolff are working hard on Cisco Field everyday, and brother Budd is fully aware of this. Anyhow, glad you know more about the current situation than the Wolff’s themselves).
@David “Is there a rule in MLB that prohibits companies, anywhere, from supporting any of the franchises? If not, I don’t see what the “problem” is.”
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The rules which govern here are the free market and simple logic. There simply is no demand amongst the firms that are the target markets for $200-per-game club seats and $7,000-per-game suites for committing to purchase such tickets and drag important clients through 90 minutes to two hours of painful traffic on a regular basis over a five or ten year period.
@Tony- If I am right then it makes sense why Wolff stays so quiet.
Wolff wins either way, he gets San Jose or the Dodgers. If you were him wouldn’t be patient?
Selig has known him way too long and it was Selig who put Wolff in this bad position. You don’t think the two sat down “off the record” and discussed this in detail?
Wolff says there is no plan B and that if San Jose is shot down he would look to MLB for direction. Selig stating no decisions will be made until “all options have been exhausted”.
This plus 905 days, no response to SVLG or Mayor Reed? No ballot vote? The fact MLB makes more $$ moving the A’s out of the Bay Area?
How can anyone including you be “optimistic” at this point? This does not make sense on any level for the A’s to move to San Jose at all…San Jose MAY happen Tony, I pray it does. But it is the last “ditch” option and the facts are loud and clear.
…it does seem kind of illogical that Wolff would be hiring architects for a San Jose ballpark if he did not think he’d get to build it. Maybe they’re just waiting for Victory Court to officially strike out before giving the firm go-ahead for San Jose. Oakland obviously has been in no hurry to release its draft report, which can only make us think the findings so far are not optimistic.
@Tony & pjk, – What exactly have the A’s been doing with regard to preparing for San Jose? Outside of the renderings which were released some time ago, I haven’t read or heard about any further action on their part. Did Wolff discuss any of this in his interview?
Thanks,
FWIW, SuSlu tweets that Moneyball world premier will not be in Oakland, but Toronto instead.
“Not sure if everyone is aware of this, but the “Moneyball” world premiere is not in Oakland – it will be Friday at the Toronto Film Festival”
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“There will still be a premiere in Oakland on Sept. 19. Just not THE premiere. #Athletics”
@fc–well, at least the official premiere wasn’t in San Fran or San Jose.
@fc,
Read part 5 of the big interview; “nose to the grindstone” stuff. Wolff did mention something recently about son Kieth working hard everyday on cisco field; can’t remember which interview it was (might have been Slusser’s).
from SFgate, 9/8/10 (almost exactly a year ago: A’s owner Lew Wolff said Tuesday he has hired 360 Architecture, based in Kansas City, to design a stadium for the Athletics in downtown San Jose. The firm will also design a separate stadium near the San Jose airport for the Earthquakes soccer team, also owned by Wolff…
“fc–well, at least the official premiere wasn’t in San Fran or San Jose.”…you’re okay that it’s premièring in another country instead of in the bay area?!!! Wow…..
@pjk- San Jose could still happen but it is last ditch.
Wolff has to hedge his bets just in case Selig does open up the South Bay to him. I am sure Selig himself has told him something to that extent.
But the evidence to this point shows Selig has another plan in the works and until that has been “exhausted” as he has put it. No decisions will be made.
I hope Moneyball rakes in a killing at the box office. I hope it portrays the Giants organization as greedy bastards that they are.
@Anon–at least it’s in an American League city. The Toronto thing doesn’t bother me. A bunch of movie snobs at the Film Festival–whoopty doo.This will be a huge event for Oakland that will raise over a million for charity, and that’s pretty awesome.
@Sid–re: “I hope Moneyball rakes in a killing at the box office. I hope it portrays the Giants organization as greedy bastards that they are.”
And portrays Oakland as a fun place to play ball with great fans, a great history and a city deserving of a new ballpark like everyone else in MLB.
….Oakland believes it “deserves” a new ballpark but doesn’t want to spend any money to get one. Therein lies the problem. I think I deserve a new car, but as long as I don’t plan to spend any money on one, it aint happening. How many cities got new ballparks in recent years with no public contribution? None that I can think of. Even Frisco contributed something like 5%. But Oakland wants the ballpark for free.
…Not sure how Moneyball can portray Oakland as having “great fans” when one of the premises of the movie is the team doesn’t have enough money. And it doesn’t have it because it doesn’t sell enough tickets.
@pjk–to go what we’ve gone through all these years,we have the best fans in MLB, just not enough of them. The Giants sell out, but the fans aren’t really into the game ,don’t know much about the game and just wear stupid shit on their heads. The ones that braved the Stick all those years we’re die-hards, not these clowns.
…the late NJ Devils owner John McMullen once said this about Devils fans: “I love our fans, we just don”t have enough of them.” That’s the problem in Oakland. Not enough fans, like you said. As long as the majority of voters place no priority on paying for a new ballpark, there won’t be one. Oakland voters elected vehemently anti-sports Jerry Brown as mayor twice. A guy who actively blocked new ballpark efforts. And he’s not the only one who did less than nothing for the A’s. So let the chips fall where they may.
…and as governor, Brown has done the same thing, attempting to kill off redevelopment and even suggesting the 49ers and Raiders could play at stadiums at Stanford and Cal, instead of building new ones. But this is the guy the people wanted.
@jk-usa- I was one of the die hard Stick guys back in the day. I know what you are saying about “bandwagon” fans and people not watching the game on their IPads at games.
Too bad those people have $$ to spend.
Oakland may “deserve” a new ballpark but no one gets anything in life for free because they “deserve” it. That is the hard fact of life unfortunately.
Moneyball only exists because of the Giants 12 miles away. Without them nearby the A’s would be big market anywhere in the Bay Area like the Warriors are in Oakland right now.
Selig’s plan for the A’s has always been consistent. He wants the A’s and Giant’s to make an agreement so he doesn’t have to make a decision. If the A’s and Giant’s can’t make an agreement, then he delays making a decision until hopefully the A’s and Giant’s make an agreement.
In other words, I don’t think he wants to make a decision at all. He will wait until he doesn’t have to make a decision. Possible changes include Giant’s letting A’s move to San Jose (fat chance), Oakland says they can’t develop a stadium for the A’s in Oakland (Oakland will never say this), Wolff sells the team to another owner who will build in Oakland or move the A’s out of the Bay Area. The other option is if the A’s requires more money from the rest of MLB which causes the rest of the owners to demand Selig to make a decision.
re: Wolff sells the team to another owner who will build in Oakland or move the A’s out of the Bay Area.
…most likely the latter of the two, if the team goes up for sale.
re: Oakland says they can’t develop a stadium for the A’s in Oakland (Oakland will never say this),
…Correct. They won’t say it. But it sure looks like that is the case, especially given the amount of money Oakland is willing to contribute toward construction ($0.00). They probably have no money for land acquisitions or infrastructure, either, leaving that to the lucky owners.
@Sid & @jk-usa – Does anyone seriously have a problem with people using mobile devices to look at Gameday or read articles about their team while at games? Or maybe busts out a work email during a day game in the middle of the week? Baseball is one of the most “ACTION-slow-slow-slow-ACTION” sports there is. Do you expect people to just sit around and twiddle their thumbs in between batters when they could either a) learn more about what is going on in the game or b) do some work so that they can take the time off to go to the park during the work week?
@LS–I guess I’m showing my old age here (49) and am kind of an old school and don’t bring that stuff when I go to games. I turn my phone off and don’t call/talk on it if i really have to.I find plenty to do like manually keep score with a pencil, and talk to my wife, friends or other fans around us IN PERSON. What a concept, huh? I sometimes bring my Walkman and listen to the game on the radio like I’ve done on and off for 40 years now, but miss the play-by-play with Bill King and Lon Simmons big time. Regardless of how slow the game is, people need to put all that stuff aside for a few hours and enjoy the game and baseball atmosphere.You can easliy miss a great play or something odd happening on the field if your punching away on an e-mail or your FB wall,
@jk-usa – You’re quite wrong on this, and LS is correct. I’ve had plenty of conversations with the other fans around me while I’ve used my iPad or phone, including during the last three games I’ve gone to. It’s not a big deal. Used correctly it can actually enhance the game experience. AFAIK I’m the only fan toting around an iPad to every game I attend.
@ML–to each his own I guess. I remember you taking i-pads to games and everywhere else you go.I guess we on here should be thankful you do for the info you share with us when you’re out and about like your roadtrips and stuff. Don’t have an i-pad yet or a smart phone. Still have an old style flip phone. Surfing and typing on a smart phone is a pain and even worse on my flip phone. I love my laptop and desktop with the full keyboard and big screen,, but they say that these will be extinct one of these days.
from stick figure cave paintings, to stone tablets, to pencil and paper, to printing press, to type writer, to keyboard, to touch screen… It’s evolution, baby.
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I wonder if cavemen got all grumpy when someone first brought a stone tablet and chisel to whatever equivalent of a sporting event they had. I imagine there was a lot of hootin’ and gruntin’ going on when that went down.
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Carry on.
It will be a sad day when a future generation won’t know how to write his/her name on a piece of paper. I know cursive’s not even taught at some schools. I have dozens of autographed balls, pics, programs, cards, caps, etc…A tweet don’t cut it for me.
News for 9/9 – Forbes valuation on the NFL is out. One interesting snippet from the chron:
“The figures also dispel a perception that the 49ers spend less than the Raiders. Despite being the lowest revenue producing team ($217 million), the Raiders made $23 million in operational profit. The 49ers made only $1.5 million.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?entry_id=97215#ixzz1XVGlVSll
I wonder if the pro-Oakland guys are going to rag on ol’ Al on this too for making a profit and pocketing it. :X
Those are interesting figures, because as of 2009 (most recent figures I could find) the Raiders payroll was about $8 million more than the Niners. Of course, that could have changed since then, but I kind of doubt it. It looks like the Niners spend a lot of money on other stuff.
Could it be stuff relating to the quest for the new stadium? Perhaps the cost of buying out unsold tickets so they can claim bogus “sellouts” and get games on TV?
Bartleby,
Curious: do you have any idea if the Niners bogus sellouts pay off in terms of greater TV revenue? I wish the Raiders could have these faux sellouts so that they 1) could be on TV more often and 2) generate greater revenue (assuming the answer to my question was yes).
Good point Tony. By showing all local games, wouldn’t the added tv ratings revenue make up for lack of tix sales? It doesn’t make sense.This whole black-out thing is ridiculous. The lock-out didn’t help tix sales and they should lift the blackout rules because of it. If you show the games and how exciting it is, it may trigger more tix sales.Your gonna see more blackouts this year than in the past.
If you had to pick… Roger Goodell or Bud Selig? I feel like Goodell’s approach to managing the NFL might actually be an opening for MLB to regain the “top American sports league” mantle.
@Jeffrey–Both are duds IMO. NFL attendance has gone down a bit, but TV ratings are still solid. The blackout rule should be lifted though. Totally stupid. MLB attendance has fallen the last 3 years and is up 65 fans per game from last year, and playoffs and WS ratings are way down. Good ratings at local level I guess, but to take over as the top american sports league, i don’t think so. Too slow for the young generation who want instant gratification. The afforadability factor for families is a plus over the NFL in a lot of parks, but tix in many markets are still too high and is outpricing many folks.
BTW, the A’s have fallen to last place in attendance for the first time this year. 101 per game behind FLA and 114 behind TB, but still 777 a game ahead of last year, or 4%.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/current_attendance.shtml