Fosse talks ballparks
The highlight of Blog Day may have been a 25-minute discussion with Ray Fosse that spanned all manner of subjects: broadcasting, teams he played on. At one point Fosse started talking, unprovoked, about the need for a new ballpark. As a great player and broadcaster, his words carry far more weight than mine ever will. So here’s the snippet of him talking ballparks, which started as a question about comparing the current team to previous teams he played on or covered. Without further adieu:
This group of guys has a chance to be as good as (the 1989 squad), but the thing they have to do is stay together. There’s free agency and arbitration, and lots of money, the most important thing now is that the A’s somehow get a new stadium. Because as soon as a shovel is in the ground, they can keep all of these guys. Because they know what the revenue stream is going to be. Until that happens, they don’t know.
Q: Would you say you’re in favor of San Jose or in favor of a new stadium?
I’d say a new stadium, wherever it is. I don’t wanna upset people here… but unfortunately that monstrosity (points at Mt. Davis) killed us. If you can imagine when you watched games before, you could look out and see the Oakland hills, see the ivy up there.
This is the last remaining multipurpose stadium in all of baseball. Clay Wood does a great job, but he can only do so much. So to think about minimizing foul territory, which you can do when the pitchers are good enough… You can tarp the upstairs, tarp Mt. Davis, people complain – well you fill it up, and they’ll take the tarps off.
I don’t even like talking about excuses about, “Well, if we don’t leave…” Listen. To me, leaving and going to San Jose, if that’s where they go, that’s not leaving, folks. Leaving is going to another state or across the country. Staying in this area and (going to) a downtown – we’re fortunate to go to Baltimore and Cleveland in particular. Of course Boston’s downtown. Seattle. You get a downtown stadium, and what it does to revitalize a downtown area, it’s tremendous. To be honest, I’ve never been to a Sharks game but all I’ve heard are great things about downtown San Jose when the Sharks play. They support the team, it brings everyone out.
He also talked A.J. Griffin, Yoenis Cespedes, Scott Hatteberg, Chef Rodney, and more. I can’t post the audio here per the terms of the media credential (no podcasts), but these subjects and Fosse’s quotes should elicit a good amount of conversation. I’ll leave it at that.
But isn’t this the O-A-K-L-A-N-D A’s? Shouldn’t the burden of the responsibility for this lack of attendance be primarily on the ones with the team? If you want to blame SJ/Fremont/Milpitas/Santa Cruz/etc., then we should call the team the Golden State A’s! “X
“doable for a fan who really wants to go to games’
Seriously? I must have all the time in the world for the A’s or I’m not a fan? Are you in college?
@LakeshoreOAK- The alternative is to prove him right and have fans not be there. Which is what Oakland is doing. Again, I don’t mind going to Oakland for games. But showing him that Oakland is a draw is what I would feel would prove him wrong. Just my two cents on that.
@Makhan – pfffft! Please. I’m from Oakland. I fend off some kind of attack every single day. Whether it’s the bullets I dodge on my way home (joking) or the comments I get from the world at large, there is always something to defend about Oakland. That defines us. It builds that “fireman” attitude. We don’t run from burning buildings – we run in. Everybody in Oakland is all in for the Town. We ain’t scurred.
hahaha but thanks for your concern.
@Anon – so I’m right. There will be no cross-culturalization of the A’s. When they’re in Oakland, they belong to Oakland and their residents, including all of the negative press.
When they move to SJ, they will belong to SJ, including what will be the vacancy of East Bay fans.
That’s what Im talkin about. You just described it in another way. LW is trying to move the team away. Oakland and SJ dont connect culturally whatsoever. Might as well be a different state.
@Mak – sorry. That ain’t gonna work. Oakland doesn’t work that way. If LW built the stadium right where it is and charged 4X for tix, he’d have had no problem selling tix. But when you go out of your way to deliberately insult Oakland the way he did, there is a price to pay. Call it foolish on Oakland’s part, but I could have told him Oakland/East Bay was never going to go for that shit. It’s about principle. I knew it as soon as he said it. “This situation is fucked” i told myself.
@ Lakeshore – Dude, you really like to cherry pick shit out of thin air just support your case? Start manning up and having the balls to take some responsibility. The Oakland A’s are an primarily an East Bay team that draws from the Bay Area. If/when they move to San Jose, it will be on that city and its citizens to take up the flag and continue on the A’s tradition. There will be EB fans no doubt, but do I expect the concentration of fans to be from there. Nope. To think otherwise is fooling yourself.
So… If I live in the East Bay (I do), and I will be going to games no matter where the stadium may be (assuming it is in the Bay Area, I will)… Does that count as cross culturalization? WTF does that even mean?
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JH510, my concern with current “open” Oakland sites are that Coliseum City is a no go from the “urban” angle. It’s also a massive development that won’t be starting for 7-10 years either way and that’s too long. Howard Terminal has been studied and in 2001 dollars a stadium at the site would run $517M. In today’s dollars that is $619M in 2015 dollars.
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Obviously, that study was based on a generic 42,000 seat stadium and there would be some differences (like any stadium built today would probably be around 37,000)… But really… it’s gonna be somewhere in between $517 to $619M to build a stadium at the site. That’s a lot of scratch.
@ Lakeshore – Al Davis says hello and wants his vaseline back. :X From your viewpoint then, there is no turning back. The divorce is finalized then, so I guess it’s SJ or Timbuktu from now on….
@Anon – Cherrypick? Al Davis’ vaseline isn’t cherrypicking? SILENCE you fool!!! Leave my chambers at once!
Yes there is support for a team in SLC. they already have support in the Utah Jazz, why not bring the Utah A’s. In addition the Bees, the Halos AAA affiliate moves to Boise, ID!! If San Jose fails, Utah is the best choice for the A’s so they can be located in the MT Zone since the current MT Zone Teams are both in the NL.
@Mak – sorry. That ain’t gonna work. Oakland doesn’t work that way. If LW built the stadium right where it is and charged 4X for tix, he’d have had no problem selling tix. But when you go out of your way to deliberately insult Oakland the way he did, there is a price to pay. Call it foolish on Oakland’s part, but I could have told him Oakland/East Bay was never going to go for that shit. It’s about principle. I knew it as soon as he said it. “This situation is fucked” i told myself.
@LakeshoreOAK- So you’re saying if he built the stadium in it’s current location it would draw? I could see it if you said downtown/JLS but it’s current location is part of the problem. Plus again you’re asking Fischer and company (Fischer is the majority owner) to use their own money. Since you work in the Financial district, what works out better? Building a stadium out of your own pocket or getting a lot of financial support from a bunch of big shot companies in Sillicon Valley? I figure your experience in the financial district would be able to give an unbiased answer.
Also, would you mind clarifying your cross culturazation comment?
@Paul- Make it happen.
So you consider the debacle of the Raiders coming back as just a footnote in the history of Oakland and its its sports I guess? A decision that is (still) costing taxpayers millions , destroyed the Coliseum, and the future A’s with them …./rolleyes
Paul, you clearly don’t get what it takes to financially support a MLB franchise.
@Anon – but the fans still go to Raider games, don’t they? Besides, WTF does Al Davis have to do with any of this? I am not taking your bait. Go needle someone else.
/facepalm…A+B = C bro….
You noted that LW dissed Oakland and Oaklanders don’t play dat and wouldn’t attend in large numbers even if he built a new stadium there. Then I noted that the Raiders (aka Al Davis) left Oakland and yet still returned to open arms by Oakland. Now you’re saying, that regardless of how the Raiders played Oakland out of millions (PSL anyone), destroyed the Coliseum, and forcing the A’s to entertain moving, Oaklanders are cool with it and still attend games. WTF?
Build a stadium in the same place and charge 4x and they will show up! That is one awesome line of bullshit…
@Jeffrey – and your basis for this assertion is…what? Astonish me. I can handle it. I just finished reading three commercial appraisals today. If you manage to use ONE commercial appraisal term in a manner that makes sense, I will email you a coupon for a Specialty’s cookie.
@Anon – Don’t take my word for it. You can try to impress the people on this thread by taking shitty Raiders jabs and arguing with me all you want, but go turn your TV on this Sunday. You will see 1,000x more people at the Raider game than you will at an A’s game DESPITE Al Davis leaving and coming back. He was smarter than LW in this sense, enough not to stick a finger in Oakland’s eye on his way out. So that when he returned to Oakland’s open arms, they didn’t care about Mt. Davis, or the crappy Coliseum. They just wanted the team back and were willing to do anything to get them. I’ll give you 5 points for suggesting Mt. Davis might be a factor in the A’s choice. But me, as a fan, never thought Mt. Davis was the final solution. At the time, I just saw it as a “trick” to appease Davis. He wanted X number of seats and he wanted them now – it was easy to just stick em on top in the interim. I never assumed that would be the way to go for the next 40 years. It’s fairly hideous.
@ Lakeshore – “They just wanted the team back and were willing to do anything to get them.” – Principles, schminciples eh? :X
BTW – Go Niners!
Peter King joins Poole, Cohn, Dickey Tittle, Ratto and Newhouse:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/09/16/week-2/index.html#ixzz26qD19CV5
David, that’s a repost. The difference between King and those other guys? Kings opinion makes sense, he’s right to say those guys in the outfield won’t be at a new stadium of its in Santa Clara County. They say so themselves.
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Lakeshore, what does using commercial appraisal terms have to do with your ridiculous statement about charging 4x the ticket price for a new stadium at the same spot would be a hot ticket? What facts do you have to back up that assertion?
Let’s see- al Davis picked up and moved his franchise- returned after the city/county invested 200+M to build him luxury suites which ruined the Coli for the A’s– referred to Oakland as a depressed area when talking about why the Raiders don’t sell out- fielded one of the worst products on a continual basis- and is now looking for a new home 17 years later- Wow-lakeshore is right- he didn’t stick a finger in Oaklands eyes- he dropped them with a punch to their gut and he is still swinging to the tune of $20M a year while asking for a new Oakland to build him a new stadium- good ol Al- he was all class-
Building a stadium in an economically depressed area like the Coliseum that is not dense makes no sense. Focus on developing Oakland’s downtown, not depressing it by creating another. I’ll take Oakland civic leaders seriously when there is a stadium plan with the financial backing and political will to pass a ballot initiative. Which is to say I don’t think it likely. Thats not an indictment of A’s fans in Oakland, thats just political reality in an urban California environment with economic struggles. Oakland made it’s bed by dealing with the Raiders and they have to sleep in it.
Ray’s point is pretty clear, he will take a stadium anywhere downtown, but from the language he thinks San Jose is a fresher, more feasible option.
@david http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A
Ray knows the A’s ownership is vying for San Jose. He was asked specifically about San Jose. He thinks San Jose would work, but specifically mentioned a ballpark anywhere in the Bay Area is needed. I don’t see why that should ruffle feathers on either side. It’s a predictable and political answer.
^^^bingo^^^ no “endorsement” of san jose was made. chill out.
Jesus fucking Christ, people. He endorsed the move to SJ. Get over it. You can do that without dismissing an Oakland stadium.
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In a way, I’m not surprised by the reaction. Oakland-Only people must feel butthurt by Fosse’s response.
“Endorsed” as I described above means he stated public approval. Which he did. He certainly did’t oppose it… By the way, TLR, Joe Rudi and Sal Bando have all publicly stated approval of a move to San Jose, as well.
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How’s Howard Terminal coming?
Welcome to Day 2 of “Let’s Argue Over What Fosse Said”
Fosse’s comments are consistent with everyone elses who are pro-Athletics. Put in anywhere in the Bay, and yes, that includes San Jose.
I haven’t seen many comments throughout the years reading this blog which states that if it’s not San Jose, I refuse to go to any games. There may be many who are perceived to be pro-San Jose, but isn’t that because San Jose has done a helluva lot more than Oakland to court them? San Jose, if given clearance today, is five years away. Could you say the same about Oakland?
If anything, the Oakland pols seem to have been working to push the A’s away (IDLF’s comments years back about the flexibility to put events in the Coliseum if the A’s left stands out).
To have people pick out the word “endorse” as the flashpoint misses the point so badly it’s surreal. He, like many of us, said he will go to a new ballpark anywhere in the Bay Area to support the green and gold. The same can’t be said about the hard-line pro-Oaklanders.
Wow. Some of these comments are ridiculous. It’s okay for Fosse to have his own opinion, that doesn’t somehow make everyone else’s invalid. The ghost of Walter Haas could say he wants a stadium in Nicaragua and, while I’d disagree, it wouldn’t invalidate my opinion and I’d still be a fan of his. Besides, since when is Fosse a staunch Oakland poster boy? I personally don’t see this as some sort of Judas moment.. The SJ folks essentially screaming “How about them apples?” or trying to goad a response are just coming across as petty.
I haven’t been reading this comments thread much just to see how the responses would pile up. Here’s what I observed:
1. Fosse gives a nuanced, thoughtful, pragmatic opinion.
2. Some discussion of how a downtown ballpark could benefit Oakland.
3. jgmj writes something diplomatic about Fosse opinion, only to dismiss it several comments later.
4. Jeffrey throws fuel on the fire by bringing in the “San Jose as best economic option” point.
5. LakeshoreOAK makes it all about Oakland being under attack.
6. Thread devolves into pointless semantic argument about “endorsing” San Jose and defending Oakland’s honor.
You know guys, it wouldn’t hurt to think before commenting. Ask yourself, Have we gone down this road before? Am I contributing anything new? I’m not going to stop you from venting as long as it doesn’t cross the line. At some point it needs to rise above the usual going nowhere debates. Or maybe it doesn’t.
My bad…
As always, Marine Layer knows best . . . .
The vast majority of the comments made on this site are about nothing new. If we didn’t rehash the same arguments day after day, there wouldn’t be much to talk about. Sure it gets real old, but at least it is entertaining for some of us.