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	<title>Comments on: The bar has been raised</title>
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	<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/</link>
	<description>The never ending quest for a proper home for the Oakland Athletics.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 22:36:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-2/#comment-32110</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 23:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[test]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>test</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-2/#comment-32109</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@LoneStranger: I&#039;m sorry but I can&#039;t find a link.  A few years ago there was an article in one of the Bay Area weekly papers that interviewed Lew and even had a few quotes from Fisher.  Basically, he said that he realized that his campaign to move the A&#039;s to SJ turned off many of the existing fans but that he did not care about losing East Bay fans since he would cultivate new fans in the South Bay.  And he has been saying for many years that the low fan attendance was one of the main reasons for leaving Oakland.  But he and many others have failed to realize that this is a chicken-and-egg thing:  Since Schott &amp;Hoffmann, ownership has been wanting to leave town. This had a major chilling effect on attendance: people who had been supporting the team didn&#039;t want to keep paying money to owners whose goal was to get out of town.  This lack of support was then used to justify leaving town.  A vicious circle that Lew has simply not been honest about.

I resent the fact that Oakland fans seem to be held to a higher standard than fans in other cities.  Other teams have had low attendance when the team played poorly and ownership does not insult them by saying that they can be replaced.  Plus new ballparks in other towns have increased attendance and increased payroll, thereby leading to better teams, at least for a while.  Also, few teams play in a 2-team market such as the Bay Area, where the competition with the Giants and many other types of entertainment events is huge.

Ballpark access is key, and getting more important with increases in gas prices.  Although i recognize the reason the A&#039;s want SJ, it simply does not make sense from a geographical standpoint since it is tucked in the southern portion of the region.  Oakland is right in the middle, plus it has BART. Yet this point is consistently down-played. I live in Oakland and originally tried to accept the move to SJ, but the poor access made me realize that I would have very little ability to go to nearly as many games as I have over the years in Oakland.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@LoneStranger: I&#8217;m sorry but I can&#8217;t find a link.  A few years ago there was an article in one of the Bay Area weekly papers that interviewed Lew and even had a few quotes from Fisher.  Basically, he said that he realized that his campaign to move the A&#8217;s to SJ turned off many of the existing fans but that he did not care about losing East Bay fans since he would cultivate new fans in the South Bay.  And he has been saying for many years that the low fan attendance was one of the main reasons for leaving Oakland.  But he and many others have failed to realize that this is a chicken-and-egg thing:  Since Schott &amp;Hoffmann, ownership has been wanting to leave town. This had a major chilling effect on attendance: people who had been supporting the team didn&#8217;t want to keep paying money to owners whose goal was to get out of town.  This lack of support was then used to justify leaving town.  A vicious circle that Lew has simply not been honest about.</p>
<p>I resent the fact that Oakland fans seem to be held to a higher standard than fans in other cities.  Other teams have had low attendance when the team played poorly and ownership does not insult them by saying that they can be replaced.  Plus new ballparks in other towns have increased attendance and increased payroll, thereby leading to better teams, at least for a while.  Also, few teams play in a 2-team market such as the Bay Area, where the competition with the Giants and many other types of entertainment events is huge.</p>
<p>Ballpark access is key, and getting more important with increases in gas prices.  Although i recognize the reason the A&#8217;s want SJ, it simply does not make sense from a geographical standpoint since it is tucked in the southern portion of the region.  Oakland is right in the middle, plus it has BART. Yet this point is consistently down-played. I live in Oakland and originally tried to accept the move to SJ, but the poor access made me realize that I would have very little ability to go to nearly as many games as I have over the years in Oakland.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-2/#comment-32108</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;This is, of course, completely ignoring the fact that there, so far, isn’t a ‘nice part of town’ in Oakland where a stadium can practically be built.&quot;
Well yeah, that&#039;s the kicker. I get sick of reading superficial analyses like &quot;Population of SJ is 2.5X Oakland, therefore the A&#039;s should move there.&quot; The population base in the East Bay is plenty sufficient to support an MLB franchise - the question is whether there&#039;s the corporate base, stadium site and funding model to get a stadium built.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is, of course, completely ignoring the fact that there, so far, isn’t a ‘nice part of town’ in Oakland where a stadium can practically be built.&#8221;<br />
Well yeah, that&#8217;s the kicker. I get sick of reading superficial analyses like &#8220;Population of SJ is 2.5X Oakland, therefore the A&#8217;s should move there.&#8221; The population base in the East Bay is plenty sufficient to support an MLB franchise &#8211; the question is whether there&#8217;s the corporate base, stadium site and funding model to get a stadium built.</p>
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		<title>By: eb</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-2/#comment-32107</link>
		<dc:creator>eb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;it is somewhat hypocritical for people who left Oakland to insist that the Athletics be forced to stay.&quot; The comparison between a family struggling to financially care for its children and an incredibly  wealthy ownership group, who&#039;ve never lost money and will make a small fortune when they sell seems a bit off.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;it is somewhat hypocritical for people who left Oakland to insist that the Athletics be forced to stay.&#8221; The comparison between a family struggling to financially care for its children and an incredibly  wealthy ownership group, who&#8217;ve never lost money and will make a small fortune when they sell seems a bit off.</p>
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		<title>By: LoneStranger</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-2/#comment-32106</link>
		<dc:creator>LoneStranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32106</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Tim - There is a large overlap of &quot;potential customers&quot; with stadiums in SF and Oak. Even with a new stadium in Oakland, both teams are going to suffer when the other is doing well. If one is in a down year, they will lose attendance to the other. As you put distance between them, the effect of the fortunes (or misfortunes) of a club are reduced on the other.
.
This is, of course, completely ignoring the fact that there, so far, isn&#039;t a &#039;nice part of town&#039; in Oakland where a stadium can practically be built.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tim &#8211; There is a large overlap of &#8220;potential customers&#8221; with stadiums in SF and Oak. Even with a new stadium in Oakland, both teams are going to suffer when the other is doing well. If one is in a down year, they will lose attendance to the other. As you put distance between them, the effect of the fortunes (or misfortunes) of a club are reduced on the other.<br />
.<br />
This is, of course, completely ignoring the fact that there, so far, isn&#8217;t a &#8216;nice part of town&#8217; in Oakland where a stadium can practically be built.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-2/#comment-32105</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The East Bay might have the best fans, but there are just not enough of them.&quot; 

There are not enough of them to consistently fill up a 50 year old multi-purpose stadium in a shitty part of town. But that&#039;s true anywhere (SF too). There would likely be plenty enough to fill up a new stadium in a nice part of town.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The East Bay might have the best fans, but there are just not enough of them.&#8221; </p>
<p>There are not enough of them to consistently fill up a 50 year old multi-purpose stadium in a shitty part of town. But that&#8217;s true anywhere (SF too). There would likely be plenty enough to fill up a new stadium in a nice part of town.</p>
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		<title>By: LoneStranger</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-1/#comment-32104</link>
		<dc:creator>LoneStranger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jerry - &quot; Yes, increased season tickets sales are key, but Lew needs to soften his position on the fan issue and admit that A’s fans are good fans and that Oakland can draw when there is some hope of a winning team. &quot;
Please provide us with the link to an article where Wolff said the fan&#039;s weren&#039;t good. And if what you said is true, that Oakland needs some hope of a good team in order to show up, that does not bode well for keeping the team in the Oakland area. We need people to show up through thick and thin. Especially the thin. That is what truly proves a location can support a team. The East Bay might have the best fans, but there are just not enough of them. 
.
It&#039;s really too bad that the Giants made it to their LDS and the A&#039;s didn&#039;t make it to theirs. It would have been interesting to see it the other way around and how much orange was replaced with green for people who wanted the party to continue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jerry &#8211; &#8221; Yes, increased season tickets sales are key, but Lew needs to soften his position on the fan issue and admit that A’s fans are good fans and that Oakland can draw when there is some hope of a winning team. &#8221;<br />
Please provide us with the link to an article where Wolff said the fan&#8217;s weren&#8217;t good. And if what you said is true, that Oakland needs some hope of a good team in order to show up, that does not bode well for keeping the team in the Oakland area. We need people to show up through thick and thin. Especially the thin. That is what truly proves a location can support a team. The East Bay might have the best fans, but there are just not enough of them.<br />
.<br />
It&#8217;s really too bad that the Giants made it to their LDS and the A&#8217;s didn&#8217;t make it to theirs. It would have been interesting to see it the other way around and how much orange was replaced with green for people who wanted the party to continue.</p>
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		<title>By: Pudgie</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-1/#comment-32103</link>
		<dc:creator>Pudgie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 04:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with ML&#039;s comments: it is somewhat hypocritical for people who left Oakland to insist that the Athletics be forced to stay.
.
There are not enough economic opportunities in Oakland, either for a person looking for a job (in &quot;eb&#039;s&quot; case) or for a major league sports owner trying to privately finance a stadium (Lew Wolff et al).
.
Because of the uncertainty of fan &amp; corporate support for a new ballpark in Oakland, if Oakland &amp; Alameda County want to make a serious bid to keep the Athletics, they are going to have to offer up a serious amount of public money.  They did it for the Raiders, they did it for the Warriors (for the arena renovations), and they would have to do it again to keep the Athletics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with ML&#8217;s comments: it is somewhat hypocritical for people who left Oakland to insist that the Athletics be forced to stay.<br />
.<br />
There are not enough economic opportunities in Oakland, either for a person looking for a job (in &#8220;eb&#8217;s&#8221; case) or for a major league sports owner trying to privately finance a stadium (Lew Wolff et al).<br />
.<br />
Because of the uncertainty of fan &amp; corporate support for a new ballpark in Oakland, if Oakland &amp; Alameda County want to make a serious bid to keep the Athletics, they are going to have to offer up a serious amount of public money.  They did it for the Raiders, they did it for the Warriors (for the arena renovations), and they would have to do it again to keep the Athletics.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-1/#comment-32102</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 02:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32102</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice post.  I&#039;d like to see, with the good feelings generated by the A&#039;s postseason run, ownership and fans try to form a detente. Yes, increased season tickets sales are key, but Lew needs to soften his position on the fan issue and admit that A&#039;s fans are good fans and that Oakland can draw when there is some hope of a winning team. 

And Lew and Billy need to quit knocking the o.co -- we all know that it&#039;s old and that Mt Davis ruined it and that sharing the field with the Raiders is a real drag and that there&#039;s much that needs improvement, but the grounds crew does an amazing job with the field and we all know how the crowd can turn the place into something pretty special.  Being at Game 4 with my 2 adult kids, who have been coming with me to A&#039;s games since they were babies, was really something.  

We do, however, need a new ballpark, and it really needs to be decided soon, but in the meantime, the strategy of disrespecting the fans and focusing on leaving Oakland has got to go.  

Billy clearly didn&#039;t build this team for this year but was building for a future in SJ, where they would hopefully have the money to be able to sign the best of these young guys when or before they reach free agency.  But this year&#039;s surprise performance did stir up a lot of emotion for the team.  At least let&#039;s make the last few years at the old Coliseum fun, winning years.

If the decision is to move to SJ, keep the positive energy going by keeping a winning team on the field in the meantime and adopting a posture that encourages East Bay fans to both keep coming to the o.co and eventually to SJ.  As an example, work to set up special transportation options for East Bay/Valley fans to get to SJ.  

I agree with your on-field assessment, ML, but I would add that the catcher position needs to be looked at critically since neither Norris or Kottaris seem up to the task. Both are generally weak offensively, although Kottaris has better power numbers. Neither has great defense, although with Norris it may simply be that he needs more experience given his young age.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post.  I&#8217;d like to see, with the good feelings generated by the A&#8217;s postseason run, ownership and fans try to form a detente. Yes, increased season tickets sales are key, but Lew needs to soften his position on the fan issue and admit that A&#8217;s fans are good fans and that Oakland can draw when there is some hope of a winning team. </p>
<p>And Lew and Billy need to quit knocking the o.co &#8212; we all know that it&#8217;s old and that Mt Davis ruined it and that sharing the field with the Raiders is a real drag and that there&#8217;s much that needs improvement, but the grounds crew does an amazing job with the field and we all know how the crowd can turn the place into something pretty special.  Being at Game 4 with my 2 adult kids, who have been coming with me to A&#8217;s games since they were babies, was really something.  </p>
<p>We do, however, need a new ballpark, and it really needs to be decided soon, but in the meantime, the strategy of disrespecting the fans and focusing on leaving Oakland has got to go.  </p>
<p>Billy clearly didn&#8217;t build this team for this year but was building for a future in SJ, where they would hopefully have the money to be able to sign the best of these young guys when or before they reach free agency.  But this year&#8217;s surprise performance did stir up a lot of emotion for the team.  At least let&#8217;s make the last few years at the old Coliseum fun, winning years.</p>
<p>If the decision is to move to SJ, keep the positive energy going by keeping a winning team on the field in the meantime and adopting a posture that encourages East Bay fans to both keep coming to the o.co and eventually to SJ.  As an example, work to set up special transportation options for East Bay/Valley fans to get to SJ.  </p>
<p>I agree with your on-field assessment, ML, but I would add that the catcher position needs to be looked at critically since neither Norris or Kottaris seem up to the task. Both are generally weak offensively, although Kottaris has better power numbers. Neither has great defense, although with Norris it may simply be that he needs more experience given his young age.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony D</title>
		<link>http://newballpark.org/2012/10/12/the-bar-has-been-raised/comment-page-1/#comment-32101</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newballpark.org/?p=8329#comment-32101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know, it is pretty simple and structurally repetitive to provide reasoning on why an A&#039;s ballpark isn&#039;t happening in Oakland.  Wow eb, you were right!  That was to easy...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, it is pretty simple and structurally repetitive to provide reasoning on why an A&#8217;s ballpark isn&#8217;t happening in Oakland.  Wow eb, you were right!  That was to easy&#8230;</p>
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