Cisco CEO John Chambers chimes in
- 12.26.09, 23:38
- 129 Comments
I hope everyone’s having a good holiday break. It’s good to get away from the everyday hustle and bustle, which for me includes monitoring and posting on this here blog.
But enough about me. Thanks to GoA’s, who caught the SJ/SV Business Journal’s Q&A with Cisco CEO John Chambers. Chambers was named Executive of the Year by the publication in the most recent issue (subscription required). While most of the interview was geared towards the tech industry and his company’s health, Moryt Milo managed to get a ballpark-related question in the mix.
MM: Let’s change gears. I would like to ask whether we have a chance of seeing a Cisco Stadium with a Major League Baseball team in San Jose.
JC: We want the South Bay to have the A’s. We think it’s important for creating an environment for our children. Not only is it about education, because clearly it is, but it’s about job creation and an environment that will attract companies and individuals to this area. Having sports teams in the South Bay is an element of that, and we very much want to see the A’s here. So we are trying very hard. I think it’s pretty good odds that it will happen.
So far this is the first comment I’ve seen that showed Cisco’s interest in having the A’s local to them in the South Bay. While Oakland hasn’t been shut out – and there’s no reason to shut out Oakland until everything shakes out – Chambers’ affirmation of bringing the A’s into the South Bay fold is revealing. Remember that Cisco didn’t get involved until Keith and Lew Wolff started talking with Cisco about developing the networking giant’s dormant Fremont parcels. When the Fremont plan imploded, Cisco remained committed to the sponsoring the A’s efforts to remain in the Bay Area.
However, there is some question as to how Cisco and Chambers defines “Bay Area.” While Cisco should be expected to retain naming rights whether a ballpark is in the South Bay or East Bay, there is no doubt that Cisco would prefer that its premier technology showcase be conveniently located to its headquarters, and Downtown San Jose is about as convenient as you can get (Santa Clara is close as well). I wonder if Cisco’s eventual naming rights deal may be more lucrative if it’s tied to a San Jose or Fremont ballpark.
That brings me to a tangent. In light of all the threats of lawsuits and bad intent coming from the A’s, there’s one major piece the barristers are missing: Fremont. Even if they were to argue that the A’s were obligated to try for a ballpark in the East Bay, that doesn’t preclude the team from putting most of their resources behind Fremont. You can question the wisdom of the plan, but the fact remains that Wolff/Fisher put tremendous amounts of money and time into the original Cisco Field concept. Nowhere in the Coliseum lease or in any other covenants are the A’s required to try X number of times or put Y effort into Oakland. There’s only a $250,000 fee if the A’s leave Alameda County, which shows that the Coliseum Authority considered the possibility of that happening. Otherwise, why have it in there?
Going back to Chambers’ argument – it sounds like what most boosters of a particular city or municipality would say when trying to bring in a team. The difference between Chambers and other boosters is that he’s backing his statement with nine figures and a company that’s in the Dow. That’s nothing to sneeze at.
Tony, I wasn’t comparing Oakland’s homicide rate with San Jose’s. There’s no need to compare such large geographic areas. I’m more interested in neighborhoods. Unfortunately ,Downtown San Jose has experienced at least two homicides so far this year. One at the San Jose Convention Center and another on Santa Clara Street near restaurant row. That’s a high homicide rate for an area as small as downtown San Jose. I know last year downtown Oakland, which is a much larger area and includes Jack London Square, Lake Merritt, Uptown, Chinatown and Old Oakland, had two or three homicides. Also, many of those same people you disparage on the Facebook page, have signed petitions to “Keep the A’s in Oakland.” So, I think I speak for many more Oakland A’s fans than you do. How many fans have signed a petition to bring the Oakland A’s to San Jose? How many “San Jose A’s” fans have pledged to buy season tickets for a ballpark in San Jose?
Finally, we all know that Lew Wolff and Co. monitor this website. Lew, if Oakland had 27,000 season tickets would you still be looking to move to San Jose? Of course, your policies, and your attitude towards Oakland, have guaranteed a reduction in season tickets and lower attendance. Also, the fact that silent Billy Beane is experimenting in Oakland, with the San Jose Development Squad, also has a dramatic effect on attendance. Lew, closing that third deck brought attendance down as well. It’s been one blunder after another. I suspect that the boneheaded moves are intentional. I’m sure you expected to grease your way out of Oakland with virtually no opposition. You were counting on nobody caring. I mean, the politicians were greased, you had some of the local media in your pocket, and it seemed like the fans were losing interest. It was perfect. I’m sure you cant understand how this tempest all came about. You’ve got a whole lot of work ahead of yourself and many legal battles in order to get to that Silicon dreamland of yours. Good luck Lew, you’re going to need it.
“However, current evidence shows that the vast majority of Oakland A’s fans want the team to remain in Oakland.”
Still waiting for your evidence Nav.
“GoA’s”
What evidence do you have that the A’s are “suffering”?
Not anecdotes but hard and fast numbers.
No worries FC, but I do think what’s best for the team is a new ballpark that can compete with the others around the league in a fan and family friendly part of a city. I believe that all these things can be accomplished in Oakland just as you say it could in San Jose. The fans will come with ownership that shows commitment and a kiss ass ballpark in the right location. If anything I think your “San Jose only” view is clouding your judgment of what’s best for the team for only wanting to relocate the them to San Jose. It can go both ways with all these arguments with which city is best for the A’s. For my argument, I’ll stick with where the team has been for the last 40 years and would like them to continue to do so for at least 40 more years in a new state of the art ballpark. As I have said in the past….there’s no guarantees that the A’s will succeed better in the South Bay versus the East Bay just because there’s more money and when it’s well known to be Giants territory.
“However, current evidence shows that the vast majority of Oakland A’s fans want the team to remain in Oakland.”
Still waiting for your evidence Nav.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..
His evidence lies in the dozens of his previous comments where he’s said that he speaks for the vast majority of A’s fans.
If he makes the claim so many times, it must be true.
QED.
So let’s see–one of the lowest season tix bases in all of MLB at 8000 season tix-near bottom in average game day attendance at just over 17,000 per game, low low tv ratings, one of the two worst ballparks in MLB–your choice whether it is the Coli or the Trop—I don’t have the data on corporate sponsorships but would assume it is at or near the bottom—but what we do know is that there is no one that is willing to pay for naming rights—labeled a small market team in MLB based upon overall revenues…which affords the A’s to be on welfare—at the tune of $32M last year—which is the only benefit they get out of this horrible situation–
My last statement should be enough for you–$32M of welfare from the rest of MLB because their revenues suck!! Embarrassing!!
Wow, lots of anger, guys. I am a longtime season ticket holder and I find that the Coliseum is not a nice place to watch a game. I have been to other stadiums across the country and ours lacks a lot. The only thing going for it is the freeway and public transit access. I don’t care about car dealerships or an In and Out Burger place nearby. I want restaurants, shopping, dining within walking distance of the park. I want a park that is pleasing to watch a game in. I am also a Raider fan and the politicians simply blew it when they approved the remodel. The Coliseum is not fan friendly for baseball. It was built for football! Too much foul territory and bad angles in lots of seats It’s my opinion and it’s valid. I don’t like the area around the Coliseum. It is depressing and lifeless. It’s also not a very safe environment.
As for closing the third deck..I was all for it. I pay full price for my seats and than others come in and buy a cheap seat. Than you move down to the more expensive seats. Good value for you, but is akin to changing the price on an item before you purchase it. It’s bad for business. Did you expect a real businessman to not do that? Not to mention that your constant moving interrupts my watching the game. I just love it when fans come down the aisle, look for empty seats and crawl across my to get to seats in the middle, only having to move an inning or two later. Oh, don’t forget to be courteous by waiting to the end of an inning instead of standing in front of other fans, blocking the game action while you are trying access your “new” seats!
Oakland has one last chance to show that it can put a good option out there for the A’s. Maybe Mr Wolfe hasn’t played ball as some may say, but where is the leadership from Oakland and Alameda County? The A’s need a new park to stay competitive. If the powers of Mr Wolfe and MLB deem the Oakland sites are feasible, I am sure they will be considered. If not, San Jose will be waiting and ready.
It’s time for a new baseball only stadium. Oakland and San Jose need to put their best foot forward and let the MLB decide. I prefer Oakland. Downtown would have been nice. The Coliseum parking lot is worthless to me. JLS has a lot of merit. Will the City and County leaders deliver? Only time will tell. This can’t go on forever.
I’m an A’s fan and I don’t feel “losing” the team if they move to San Jose. Real fans are still fans even if it’s a little more inconvenient to attend games, which would happen in my case in they move to San Jose.
So we can now conclude that there is no reason to buy tickets.
“Buy A’s tickets! Support your team” – THAT is the straw man!
As evidenced in the sidebar:
2009 avg. (81 gms): 17,392
2008 avg. (78 gms): 19,938
Difference: 2,530 per game
Oakland A’s fans are not dumb!
“Not for giving Lew Wolff more money than he’s already making by buying season tickets etc. ”
Like ML said, it matters not one bit to Wolff whether you buy season tix or not. That money that you’re not giving him is instead coming from Yankee season ticket holders, via revenue sharing. Since Selig/MLB owners has made it a policy of theirs to make each and every franchise bring IN revenue to the pot and not withdraw from it (like the A’s and Marlins currently do), all you’re really doing is bringing the A’s down a notch in the league. I can’t see how any A’s fan could sabotage their team by being so selfish and self-serving.
“I’m saving money buy purchasing $9 tickets for each game the day of at the box office and it’s been working out just great for me over the years. On top of that I happen to know a couple of ushers who works for the Coliseum so I get free field level tickets all the time and can usually get moved closer to the field on any other game day I attend. So again, there’s no reason for me to be a season ticket holder.”
You can get those tickets because there’s not much demand. Those tickets would never be available at Fenway or Wrigley or even AT&T. THAT is the problem.
“even after we made it to the ALCS in 06.”
What about the embarassing 2002 ALDS? That was before Wolff. Back when an Oakland-only new ballpark line of thinking was still going around. Oakland-only supporters conveniently omit the fact that, apart from a few years where the A’s had the highest payroll and biggest stars and multiple WS-trips, the A’s have NEVER EVER drawn as well as their history and tradition would lead you to believe.
They may not be dumb, but there sure aren’t many of them.
A’s fans aren’t dumb—but the entitled attitude of a few Oakland only is—
What are you talking about? The tickets are available because ALL employees on the A’s payroll can get up to 4 field level tickets to any game (not including blackouts) so why wouldn’t I take advantage of my hook ups? Only a fool would buy tickets when they know they can get free field level tickets. You’re trying to criticize me for not being a season ticket holder because I can get free tickets year round? Or because I prefer to buy my tickets at the box office the day of the game? I probably attend more games than you regardless so don’t try to pass judgment on my loyalty for my team. And now you say I’m bringing the A’s down a notch? Great…now I have fans hating on the fact that I go support my team over 35 times a year. And you’re an East Bay fan at that from Berkeley?? Get over it bro. I do what I can to watch my team as much as possible throughout the season and like I said, it has been working out fine for me over the years.
oA–having friends who have free tix and taking advantage of them is all col–but when you mention in your post that you purchase $9 game tix and than take advantage of being moved closer to the field ….in my book I call that cheating the system—but regardless you are able to do this becasue there are no fans in the ballpark—and you question why the 3rd deck was tarped–how many of people like you would buy 3rd deck seats and than angle to move down to the more expensive field seats—simple economics here–supply is much greater than the demand in Oakland–
You’re right, there is no guarantee that San Jose will work, but on the otherhand things haven’t exactly worked out in Oakland for the better part of the past 40 years. Couple that with the fact that Oakland’s leaders seem to be more reactive than proactive, and you don’t exactly have a recipe for success. San Jose on the otherhand appears more willing to “playball”. In addition, there is a much larger corporate presence in the south bay.
Also, maybe the reason why the perception that the south bay is “Giants Country” is because that is their territory. I’m sure if the A’s were granted access to the south bay a lot of fans would hop aboard the bandwagon. Remember too that the south bay was once A’s territory.
GoA’s, if you read my post a little more carefully you’ll see that I wrote that I “get moved closer to the field.” That means that my hook ups with the ushers I know (yes from attending so many games over the years I get to know them on a personal level) will ALLOW me to move closer. Damn, why are so many people questioning my means to attending games. Like I said before, I probably attend a hell of a lot more than most of you on this blog. Seriously you guys don’t know anything about how I get my tickets throughout the season so quit hating. I happen to also get free tickets through work quite often and also know a bunch of people who work for the city of Oakland who also gets me free tickets. Don’t try to judge me when you don’t know shit about the facts of where my tickets come from. If any of you had the hook ups like I do, you all would be doing the exact same thing.
It’s not about you, bro. Who gives if you attend a bunch of games if the A’s are probably breaking even at best with you coming to their games? Like it or not a team needs people willing to pay top dollar for premium seats, so the team can in turn pay top dollar for premium players.
Bottom line, we need a new stadium to consistently attract the loads of loaded “fans” who can support a payroll up to par with the rest of the league.
Oakland-only fans are living in a fantasy world where there are 27,000 potential Oakland-based season ticket holders just waiting for Lew Wolff to say “I love you Oakland” to buy up the entire upper deck of the Coliseum and live happily ever after. They will come if ownership “respects” Oakland, or some other touchy-feely nonsense.
This is plain delusion. The only thing that will get 27,000 butts in the stands to watch the Bay Area’s 2nd banana team is a new, shiny, ballpark. I don’t care if the owners don’t want to build in Oakland. It’s their team, it’s their money, unless Oakland is offering to pay for a stadium upfront, Wolff and Fisher should just go ahead and invest their money wherever they please.
The sooner they ditch the whiny loser fans who are soooo obsessed with how ownership “treats” them, the better.
Great—so at the end of the day your typically not a paying customer of the A’s….so to rant and rave that they need to stay in Oakland when your typically only willing to support them when you get free tix is beyond me—If your usher friends gave you one of their 4 field level tix that you say they get for free…great…by all means take advantage of it…but I doubt the A’s management would approve of their ushers allowing fans to buy the cheap $9 tix and then taking them down into the field level seats that were not sold…bottom line the A’s need paying fans to attend games…not those gaming the system.
True dat.
GoA’s, I pay for plenty of tickets so quit picking at every little thing I point out regarding hook ups. I get hooks from because I’ve been a paying customer over all the years that I’ve been a fan. Not just recently because I’ve been a fan most of my life and have been paying for my own tickets for many many years. Like I said before, some of you are nothing but a bunch of haters that don’t know me or anything about my loyalties to my team. Don’t come at me saying I’m not a paying customer or that I cheat the system when you don’t know the facts. Yeah I get some free tickets thrown my way from time to time and that I do know some of the ushers quite well. That doesn’t mean I haven’t been investing years of my time to go watch my team play at the Coliseum while spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on merchandise and team memorabilia’s. You guys are really starting to get on my last nerves when I have not said one negative thing about any of you or where you’re from or how many games you attend and how many tickets you buy a year. At the end of the day, no one should be able to question how much I love my team.
I agree with OAKLANDathletics on this point. There’s nothing more divisive than calling out a fan’s loyalty. It’s not my place, nor any of yours to do this. Whether you go to 5 games or 50 shouldn’t determine how much of a fan you are. I’ve gotten sick over the years of having to explain how many games I go to (30+ annually).
If you want to get into how the various powers-that-be are doing in their efforts, that’s fair game. So is criticism of the fanbase as a whole. Individual attacks are not.
Berkeley Fan,
The Oakland A’s averaged around 27,000 fans before Mr. Wolff started playing his relocation game. Mr. Wolff gets the exact number of fans which he deserves. He’s in the absolute center of the Bay Area in a ballpark with it’s own BART station and in a ballpark which has drawn over 3 million fans one year including the playoffs. Mr. Wolff has failed miserably in marketing the Oakland A’s. Mr. Wolff has alienated his customers by threatening relocation, closing the third deck, denigrating his venue, and trading fan favorites. He gets the exact attendance he deserves, no more, and no less. If people don’t like the owner of a business, and don’t like the product which he’s putting out, they aren’t obligated to buy. When a business doesn’t listen to its customers, it’s destined to fail. Mr. Wolff is failing in the most advantageous location in the Bay Area. Mr. Wolff’s solution in to turn over 3/4 of the Bay Area to the San Francisco Giants. Mr. Wolff and Mr. Fisher want to give the Oakland fanbase to the Giants and fight the Giants in a corner of the Bay Area where Giant fans outnumber Oakland A’s fans at least by 70%. It’s a recipe for disaster. The Giants will control the East Bay, North Bay, Peninsula, AND South Bay. The San Jose A’s will be a non-entity in the Bay Area. Between alienated Oakland A’s fans and Giant fans in the South Bay Wolff and Fisher will be screwed. I can’t say that I’ll be shedding many tears.
Here’s my evidence guys. http://www.facebook.com/letsgooakland
ML –
Question: Approximately two seasons ago, there were scores of A’s personnel (?) wandering around Jack London Square & Oakland City Center trying to entice the business crowd into buying tickets at a slightly reduced price; do you know what ever happened to them? I generally buy them at the box office before the season begins, but I picked up a couple extra for the sheer convenience of it. Without knowing exactly how effective that was, it seems like a nice way to boost attendance.
And if MLB wants to stop favouring the cities of New York, Boston, Chicago, et al, it might behoove them to rethink their adherence to the Zipf Formula.
You hit the nail right on the head. Navigator loves to rant about how Oakland fans would come out in force if only management loved them enough. However, he consistently ignores the inconvenient fact that average attendance under sainted Oakland-lover Haas was nearly the same as under carpetbagger Schott, even counting Haas’ bloated payroll/World Series years.
Bottom line: Most fans don’t place a lot of weight on “does my billionaire sports owner love me enough” when making ticket buying decisions. They base their decisions on factors like (a) is the team any good; (b) is the venue nice; (c) is the venue convenient; (d) is the weather nice today; (e) who’s the opponent; (f) how important is the game; and (g) who’s pitching? If these factors line up right, they’ll come, regardless of ownership.
The A’s averaged 27,000 fans when they were coming off good years on the field. As with their entire history (and that of most teams), in years when performance was good and improving, attendance went up. In years performance was poor or declining, it went down.
The story of A’s attendance cycles has been almost entirely about team performance and prevailing economic conditions. There is no evidence whatsoever “owner’s commitment to Oakland” has played any role whatsoever. In fact, the opposite is true, evidenced by the fact Haas’ attendance plummeted as soon as the team stopped winning while Schott’s attendance went up every year he owned the team despite his being less committed to Oakland than Wolff is.
Unfortunately, during their entire history in Oakland, the ceiling on attendance has been low. They have never in their 40 year history in Oakland broken 3 million in attendance. They’ve broken 2.5 million only 2 or 3 times, and only when unsustainable payrolls brought repeated World Series appearances. Even then, attendance was adequate, but not dazzing considering the circumstances. Any other MLB market, including Montreal, would have been able to draw 2.5 million fans in years they were making repeated WS appearances.
bartleby.
I give you Charlie Finley as exhibit A. Here was a carpetbagger owner who lived in Chicago and had no attachment to the community. After carpetbagger Charlie Finley destroyed the franchise we had the Haas family pick up the pieces of a decimated franchise. The Haas family was customer friendly and were proud to represent the community. The Haas family were great owners and the community showed up in huge numbers. The A’s drew 2.9 million fans in 1989. They drew over 3 million counting the playoffs. The A’s also drew over 2.7 million and 2.6 million fans in consecutive years. What did Walter Haas do right when Charlie Finley had trouble breaking 1 million fans with three consecutive World Series titles? Granted, the San Francisco Giants weren’t drawing squat at the time either. The Oakland Athletics outdrew the San Francisco Giants in 1989, and many times during the Haas ownership, even though the Giants made the World Series in 1989 and were in the playoffs in other years. Steve Schott never reached his full potential in Oakland because he was obsessed with relocating the team to Santa Clara. Do you remember the comment to the Santa Clara City Council? Schott uttered these infamous words, “Our future is not in Oakland.” I remember a series at the end of the year when the A’s clinched the playoffs and drew over 100,000 for the three game series. The first thing that came out of Schott’s mouth was a complaint about the ballpark and about attendance. Schott knew how to take a wonderful and euphoric moment and throw cold water all over it. If it wasn’t for his anti-Oakland, one foot out the door attitude, the Oakland A’s would have approached Walter Haas attendance numbers. Instead of getting 2.6 million to 2.7 million fans, Schott hovered around the 2.2 million mark. As far as Schott and Hoffman being more anti-Oakland than Wolff, no way. There is no one more anti-Oakland then Wolff and Fisher, with the possible exception of Bud Selig. Wolff spent an incredible amount of time and money in Fremont. Wolff has been winking at San Jose for who knows how long. By contrast, I don’t think Wolff even knows where Oakland City Hall is located. Wolff didn’t even know that Oakland had a downtown. Remember, he wanted to know where to hold the World Series Parade? How about Market Street in San Francisco, Lew? Wolff, went on a campaign to pacify Ron Dellumns, Dick Spees, and anyone in charge in Oakland. Wolff wanted to grease his way out of Oakland. Wolff wanted no resistance after he did nothing to get a ballpark in Oakland. He stalled all efforts as he allowed his self-imposed Oakland deadline to expire. And now here we are last in the League in attendance. Oakland has been blessed with one great ownership in 40 years. Oakland has also been cursed with three carpetbaggers who have never allowed the full potential of the Oakland Metro Area to materialize. They’ve all gotten the attendance they deserved. Mr Haas was loved in Oakland and the East Bay. For the most part, Schott and Hoffman weren’t well liked, but were never reviled like Carlie Finley and Lew Wolff. The attendance doesn’t lie. Fans speak with their wallets.
Nav brah! Just curious, are you still in high school? Seriously!
For the record, I’m an A’s fan who doesn’t “revile” Lew Wolff. I imagine there are other like myself who commend our owner for wanting what’s best for the team. And there are those, like Navigator, who absolutely despise Wolff. That’s fine; everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. But again Nav…Y*O*U D*O*N*’T S*P*E*A*K F*O*R A*L*L A’S F*A*N*S!!! Repeat that 100 times to yourself and then get your A$$ to bed!
“2009 avg. (81 gms): 17,392″
Here’s my evidence.
Wow. Mr. Chambers sounds just like the “community guy” Nav would’ve loved to have in Oakland. Cisco appears to be very committed to the South Bay. I wonder why he’s so optimistic on the A’s relocating to SJ?
Jeff,
As R.M. implied in his thread, maybe because he’s the man with the $$$$$…
You mean the Sharks averaged more fans at The Tank than the A’s at the Coli? Unbelievable!
Tony,
Obviously Lew Wolff knows “whats best for the team.” He’s been doing a great job so far. Jeff, there are plenty of great community oriented people in Oakland. Many of them are involved in the “Let’s Go Oakland” effort. The only problem is that they don’t have the access to Wolff that his rich buddies in Silicon Valley have. Also, Tony, I’m sure I don’t speak for ANY “A’s” fans. However, I think many Oakland Athletic fans agree with me.
The Warriors draw more than the Sharks with a bad basketball team in Oakland. Also, thank Lew Wolff for the 17,392 average attendance. He’s brought that down from the 27,000 we used to draw less than five years ago. Thats quite an impressive feet. How do you wreck a franchise in such a short amount of time?
The Warriors only draw slightly more than the Sharks because Oracle Arena is larger than The Tank.
Great, so let the A’s build a ballpark where they see fit and you can keep your “Oakland Athletic” team.
ML–I wasn’t questioning loyalties–you don’t need to attend a game in person to be a fan…but what I do question is 2 things– oA saying he was waiting until Wolff committed to Oakland and than he would become a season tix holder—-really? how about all the years before Wolff…doesn’t sound like he ever fit this bill…. and second rants about the tarping of the unused 15,000 seats at the Coli—as others have pointed out I personally don’t appreciate being a paying season tix holder with rights to field level seats only to find others paying their way into the park at $9 bucks and than heading down to the expensive seats–its gaming the system–just what we need–another 15,000 cheap seats so these fans can game the system—-sit where you pay to sit bottom line—has nothing to do with loyalties
Nav–you have far too inflated of an opinion of yourself if you really believe that many A’s fans agree with you—I don’t and btw—personally I am thrilled that LW is the owner of the A’s and doing something to change the horrible ballpark situation that they have had to endure for the past 15 years—more power to him, Fisher and Chambers if they can keep the A’s in the Bay Area by building a new ballpark in San Jose–
I checked out the LGO Facebook page. As I read the posts by the “loyal Oakland A’s fans”, a thought kept coming to mind. Where are all of these fans on gameday? These A’s fans who bleed green and gold, who have watched the team since they were little, where are they?
Here are some comments:
“Please help keep the A’s in Oakland…. I’ve been an all around Oakland fan all of my life!!!!!!”
“Man we better keep the A’s in Oakland. Don’t take them anywhere, Fremont or anywhere else”
“The A’s have been my home team since I can remember. They should stay in Oakland…period, exclamation point”
“is a good cause and i want the A’s to stay in oakland as well. the only way its going to happen is by all the bay area fans supporting them and going to the games. come on oakland show your support by attending the games, good bad or whatever”
I think the last poster got it right. Get your leaders off their butts, and get off your butts and out to the ballpark.
I’ll take Finley as Exhibit A. GREAT owner. He rebuilt the farm system into one of the best in the majors, BROUGHT you the damn team, for crissakes, then almost immediately gave you three consecutive world championships How many other MLB fanbases would take that? I’d say just about ALL of them, with the possible exception of the Yankees. Well there’s gratitude for you.
Oh, he lived in Chicago. Well there’s a crime right there. Eddie DeBartolo was not from SF, either. How many Niner fans held that against him?
When speaking of Haas, you always ignore the fact that once the winning stopped, Oakland abandoned him like rats leaving a sinking ship. Haas hemorraged attendance during the latter years of his tenure much faster than attendance has declined under Lew Wolff. Here are the figures:
1990: 2.9 million
1991: 2.7 million
1992: 2.5 million
1993: 2 million
1994: 1.2 million
1995: 1.1 million
Turns out, even Walter Haas couldn’t sustain “Walter Haas attendance numbers.” Haas remained the same lovable guy, committed to the community. So what’s your explanation for that abysmal attendance performance? (Hmm, the upper deck remained open in those years, so we can’t blame that…)
So anyway, after community-loving Walter Haas destroyed the franchise, we had carpetbagger Steve Schott pick up the pieces of a decimated franchise. Attendance increased every year of Schott’s ownership.
This is not rocket science: When teams win, attendance goes up. When they lose, attendance goes down. The attendance curve in Oakland tracks with winning, with the economy, and with what was going on with the team across the Bay. It does not track in the slightest with “we had an owner who loved us.”
Virtually all teams must endure cycles in team performance (with the possible exception of the Yankees). All teams need to be able to weather those down cycles. The problem in Oakland is, adjusting for team performance, attendance has ALWAYS been disappointing. In the down years, it’s been awful. In the up years, it’s been mediocre. Even in the anomalous, unsustainable, outlier years of the late-80′s, it really wasn’t that impressive considering the remarkable product which was on the field.
And make no mistake, those late-80s years cannot be repeated. Even the Yankees can’t get to the World Series every year, and no matter what happens with the ballpark no other team is going to be able to spend like the Yankees, even if they had an owner who wanted to. And in the late-80s, there was no AT&T Park, now there is.
Bottom line: If the A’s are going to get by in a relatively small two team market, location is more critical now than ever. There is little evidence Oakland is a good location for a baseball team. There is much evidence it is a poor location, at least with the Giants across the Bay.
I think we really know what to expect in terms of attendance at a beautiful ballpark in Oakland since prior to Mt. Davis the Oakland Coliseum was widely considered one of the nicest parks for baseball in the league. So the A’s had a great owner in Haas and a great ballpark. Adjusted for the quality of the team on the field, during that time the A’s had about league-average attendance. Is average good enough? It depends on where one’s priorities lie.
Gojohn,
I’m having trouble following your logic. As I read your earlier analysis, the A’s had below average attendance relative to wins pretty much throughout their history. And again, that was pre-AT&T Park. Pretty clearly, it would be much more difficult now for them to achieve even that anemic level of attendance in Oakland.
In your earlier post, you note that Haas’ purchase of the team helped attendance. This seems to be true for ’81 and ’82, when attendance jumped and was above league average. However, it also seems to have been a temporary effect as in ’83 attendance plummeted and was again well below league average.
In Haas years ’83 through ’87 and ’93 through ’95, attendance was dismal both in absolute terms and relative to league average. If you exclude the first two years of his ownership, I suspect Haas numbers relative to wins don’t look any better than Finley, Schott or Wolff.
Also, in your earlier post you state attendance plummeted when Haas sold the team to Schott. Based on Baseball Almanac attendance figures, this simply was not the case. Attendance was roughly 1.2 million in ’94 and 1.1 million in ’95, the last two years of Haas. It was 1.1 million in ’96, Schott’s first year, and rose steadily from there.
My conclusion: If an ownership group is unsuccessful and/or disliked by the fans, a new owner can bring a bump in interest (optimism for better things and all that). But it’s a temporary effect, and nothing to base a ballpark mortgage payment on. It seems pretty clear the A’s cannot count on even average attendance in Oakland in the AT&T years.
Also, even if they could, none of this considers the other critical way in which the landscape has changed: The importance of premium seating (and therefore corporate base). Attendance alone doesn’t cut it; you need to move that premium product. Oakland simply doesn’t have the corporate base.
When the “Oakland only” posters attempt to address this issue, they always try to claim San Francisco’s corporate base as their own. This is absurd. An Oakland team is never going to be able to compete with the Giants for that market. Even if they could, it’s not big enough for two teams. (The Giants don’t believe it’s big enough for even one team, or they wouldn’t be opposing the A’s move south so vigorously).
My analysis of attendance always tried to normalize for the quality of the team on the field. That is why I stated that once Haas sold the team to “attendance plummeted.” Bad wording on my part because, as you state, attendance was stable. What I meant was attendance normalized to the number of team wins went down. In 1996 the A’s won 11 more games, yet the turnstiles figures didn’t budge. Since formula factored in turnstile values and wins, the “normalized attendance” value dropped. Really comparing 1995 values to 1996 wasn’t quite fair since 1996 was the year the coliseum was under construction. Here are the “normalized attendance” figures for all the Oakland Athletics owners.
Finley -34%
Haas -4%
Schott -31%
Wolff -27%
That is Haas -4% and Carpetbaggers -31%
It seems that there is a significant difference between the ownerships. The Haas years were right around league average when normalized for the quality of the team on the field. Probably about as good as you can expect for a new park in Oakland. As for the AT&T affect, perhaps that could be mitigated by moving the Oakland stadium to JLS.
tony d = clown
this site sucks
Wolff = greedy carpet bagger that is going to swindle any naive city’s taxpayers that are dumb enough to let his projects go forward … Fremont is lucky to be off the hook.
Yea like San Jose really cares about their sports. If SJ people really cared about their sports and teams, the original Earthquakes would not have left for Houston.
Bottom line is I see all these comments on people on this site wanting them to go to SJ, but I don’t hear any fond memories of the A’s in the past. I hear nothing about the great tradition of the team from the south bayers or the fact of how Mr. Wolff could turn on SJ as fast as he did with Oakland and Fremont. This organization will not go anywhere unless the ownership puts its best foot forward in putting together a good team on the field. STADIUM OR NOT.