Oh boy, oh boy. I need some comedy. I mean aside from all the quasi lawyers posting their different rationales for lawsuits, or lack of lawsuits, by the City of San Francisco, the City of Oakland, or anyone else who can afford a lawyer in these trying economic times. So a joke:
Why won’t sharks eat lawyers? Professional courtesy! Whiz, bang, crash!
Now on to serious business. What are the real legal angles here? What similar court cases have been filed in the past and how do they relate to this situation?
I started to try and figure this out by looking into the Oklahoma City Thunder, then figured why not look at the A’s and Raider’s cases with Oakland and then tried to find something similar in baseball and looked at the City of San Diego and the Padres epic battle with historic preservationists, PETA and anti-tax groups.
Really, the only one that seems to be similar is the tale of the erstwhile Super Sonics. And not just because they were once green and gold. But let’s take ’em one at a time, ending with the Thunder.
Detour: What the hell kind of name is “Thunder” anyway? I vote for a new rule. Let’s amend the US Constitution to state that if it doesn’t end with an “s” or “x” then it can’t be a team name. Can we San Jose Carpetbaggers , Oakland Onlyers and Somewhere in the Bay Area’s all agree on this? If the plural version of the word is the same as the word, no dice. So it is either the Orlando Magics or they get a sensible name or they are raided by a tea party protest brigade!
Back to the matter at hand. Wait, this is gonna be about legal stuff and what not so I have to get something out of the way.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I do not play one on TV and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I do, however, have a frog in my pocket.
The San Diego events are not even remotely similar. They had more than a dozen lawsuits filed that mostly had to do with selling bonds to finance the stadium. Then a second kind of challenge was brought up and it had to do with destroying the Western Sheet Metal building, which had been designated a Historic Landmark. Funny that the thing I think coolest about that stadium may not even exist if not for that Historic Landmark designation. One other thing of note, PETA hates PETCO. And they surreptitiously purchased a brick for the concourse at the stadium and it reads “Break Open Your Cold Ones Toast The Padres Enjoy This Championship Organization.” The first letters of each word spelling “BOYCOTTPETCO.” I am not a huge PETA fan, nor detractor… but this is pure comedic genius.
So, if not San Diego, then where? How bout Oakland?
The City of Oaktown is no stranger to legal wrangling with the local teams. The A’s once sued the city for $48 Million in lost revenue based on the construction of Mt. Davis. (And some people said the A’s never mentioned they wanted a new stadium). Of course this suit was dropped when the A’s agreed to put the team up for sale at the “discounted” price of $120 Million and stay in Oakland for 3 years while Oakland made a payment of $2 Million to the team and reduced the A’s annual rent to $0.00 from $350k. The City then put forth the Dolich group which was put through the rigors of MLB’s ownership committee only to be denied a vote when the league instead voted 28-2 to establish a Blue Ribbon Committee to study baseball’s financial landscape and halted any pending ownership decisions in the process (though the fact that 28 other owners voted for a BRC instead of a final vote on Dolich and crew might let you know what they thought of the proposal). Is your head spinning yet? And this is just the beginning of our current saga… I will spare you the rest, other than to say that the Raiders, Warriors and A’s other legal entanglements with Oakland have nothing to do with precedent setting and the San Francisco veiled threat of a letter.
So what about the Oklahoma City Thunders…. For all the similarities, there are differences. For one the NBA doesn’t have an exemption from Anti-Trust Laws. Another thing is that Seattle sued to keep a team within its borders, not to stop a team outside of its borders from moving to a city further away from its borders. Lastly, the former owner sued to invalidate the sale due to fraud by the Oklahoma City group.
So first, the San Francisco threat is nothing like any of this. If Oakland should try to take up the cause of suing the A’s, in the event of an actual relocation, they should read up on this case. First, Seattle sued the Sonics for breaking a lease. There were two years left technically, and with these 2 years as leverage the City was able to get $45 Million bucks out the Sonics. Additionally, if no new team comes to Seattle by 2013, the Thunders will be sending a check for $30 Million to the Emerald City.
Things to note… There is no more Sonics. There is no more NBA in Seattle. Despite a lease agreement, the City failed to keep the team in town. Oakland doesn’t even have the lease as leverage. The A’s are allowed to move, the payoff is already included in the year by year lease should that move take them out of Alameda County. It is a lot less money too.
So how bout the claims of fraud? Turns out, the NBA and MLB have similar protections. The former Sonics owner, Mr. Howard Schultz, had agreed (in writing, as it were) not to sue Mr. Clay Bennett and eventually dropped his suit as a result. Even though there was evidence of fraud in the form of emails between Clay and his partners. In the emails, they clearly discussed the fact that they bought the team with an intention to move it, though they expressed their desire to stay put to Schultz.
In the A’s case, the current ownership group has no such agreement with the former owners or the City of Oakland. The previous ownership group promised to keep the team in Oakland through 2001 back in 1998. Lew Wolff bought the team with Mr. Fisher under no false pretenses.
I guess I just don’t see any angles for either San Francisco or Oakland to actually win a lawsuit. The only similar lawsuit I am aware of didn’t conclude on the desired note for the City of Seattle. The only sure thing is that we should probably see some more fireworks before this whole thing is over. And if those fireworks are in the form of a good plan in Oakland, the team will stay. If they are in the form of threatened lawsuits… Well, that is a different story.
newballpark.org 
Jeffrey–nice work as usual–of course MLB, the A’s and San Jose also have attorney’s who I am sure have already come to the same conclusion as you. I think that the city of SF knows that they don’t have a legal leg to stand on….so all I can surmise is that the gints are trying get a head start on trying to sway public opinion down in SJ for an expected referendum. Assuming this is the strategy MLB and Bud are going to have to give SJ the green light near term to develop its only public information campaign…..or since it is all baseless they basically ignore it, let the emotion die down, and continue on their path…whatever that might be.
Great post Jeffrey. My take is that if MLB offers the Giants gauranteed revenues from 2014 through 2017 ( the year $20 million annual debt payments sunset), then whatever the hell came out of Dennis Herrera’s mouth yesterday has no relevance whatsoever. Why? Because then the City of SF will continue to get its money from the Giants. The question would then become what are acceptable revenue levels for the Giants? Does MLB assume 81 sold out games per year, both seats and luxury suites, regardless if the team does well or not? Where do you start?
By the way, doesn’t this all sound like the Orioles owner Angelos threatening to sue MLB if the Expos relocate from Montreal to Washington DC? And just to think, the A’s are trying to move farther away from SF. Un freakin believable!
By the way GoA’s, the Giants are beginning to sway public opinion down here; all my co-workers and family members are appalled that SF is trying to keep MLB out of San Jose! Some of them are even Giants fans!
Just to add to the above: the idea of gauranteed annual revenues is based on somehow SF/Giants proving that they will be harmed financially by the A’s moving to San Jose. And as has been stated ad nauseum, there’s no way for them to prove that.
Yea Yea Yea. Who cares what public opinion is in San Jose. MLB baseball sure as hell doesn’t. SF and Oakland doesn’t care about SJ public opinion. I don’t think the people of SJ really care either.
…”Who cares what public opinion is in San Jose. ….SF and Oakland doesn’t care about SJ public opinion……ironic…they don’t care but are initiating actions to influence it…silly me to think they must care…
It’s getting ugglier by the day! Now the City of Oakland wants to sue!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/abraham/detail??blogid=95&entry_id=53842
Let’s hear the decision already Selig!
There’s absolutely no question that the City of Oakland is the party which will be damaged economically the most by the misrepresentations of Lew Wolff and MLB. Oakland has every right to sue the pants off of Lew Wolff, MLB, and the City of San Jose. Way to go John Russo. If San Francisco is going to be harmed by these shenanigans, then Oakland will be harmed economically ten times over. The loss of the Oakland A’s will send a false negative message to the World that Oakland is a city on the decline at a time when the City of Oakland is actually enjoying a renaissance with many new housing units downtown, three world class theaters, an incredible number of new restaurants, clubs, etc. Like I said, we’re not the Montreal Expos. We will not lay down and allow San Jose to roll over us. Be happy that you rerouted HSR away from us. Leave the Oakland A’s alone, and we’ll call it even.
Blah blah blah… Oakland is experiencing a revival fuelled by hipsters who are apathetic about pro sports, their only passion being obscure bands and skinny jeans. Montreal is 10x larger and 100x more vibrant than Oakland and still the inhabitants refused to support the Expos. Sometimes the inhabitants of a city just aren’t that into baseball. Deal with it.
How pathetic and not a legal leg to stand on.
Good move on Oakland’s part. I hope San Jose gets slammed.
hope is not a strategy….which has been Oakland’s problem all along….how many lawsuits has Oakland been involved with relative to professional sports….Raiders, Warriors, A’s…..logically minds would surmise that something is up with the leadership of this city–
I could say the same thing about San Jose’s long running desperation for professional sports teams. So much so they would try to pry teams from its neighboring cities.
You paint SJ the villian…I view it different—and I am not a SJ resident…as an A’s fan who wants to see them remain in the Bay Area, I am thrilled that a city had vision and political will to be in the position they are today….all the things they have done Oakland could have done and avoided this situation….there was more than enough time. Nothing prevented Oakland from identifying a quality site, acquiring the property etc etc…..nothing is preventing Oakland from being pro-active right now in securing a new stadium for the Raiders…you and I both know this same drama will unfold again in Oakland in about 3-years–when the Raiders lease is up—and new stadiums are opening in LA and Santa Clara-
Who’s prying? The A’s WANT to move to San Jose.
Interesting. I’d say that we’ve gone full tilt into the end game and that SF and Oakland think the “fix” is in. Whatever. The A’s have satisfied their legal obligations to the city of Oakland, and they never had a contract, implied or otherwise, with the city of SF. The Giants know they need a proxy for any legal wrangling as they’re forbidden by charter to be direct actors. So naturally they turn to the city to act as their proxy’s to leverage the best deal possible for themselves. I expect a counter suit from SJ any day now. In the mean time, I’ll be planning the best routes to attend A’s games in the city of SJ. Because naturally, with all this commotion, it’s obvious that the verdict is indeed known to the key players. SJ it is. Book it.
Unfortunately, MLB will have a whole lot of, as Rickey Ricardo would say, “splainin to do.” Bud Selig doesn’t do real well under oath, either in the courtroom, or when being interviewed by Congress.
You just get dumber…
Reading zennie reads like a bad soap opera script…doubt San Jose will join the fray…let the others look ridiculous and stay focused on having your ducks in a row if/when MLB opens the door. Oakland will have its hands full wit lawsuits….A’s today, Raiders within a few years, and who knows about the Warriors….2017 lease is up and we all know what happened in Seattle. If I was Oakland I would try and figure out how I plan on keeping the Raiders who play in one of the worst stadiums in football…..sound familiar…could be deja vu once again–
Go A’s, I can think of a few stadiums that are worse for football than the Oakland Coliseum. This is off topic, but I just wanted to thank the San Jose Sharks for participating in the Mayor’s Toy Drive in Oakland at the Oakland Ice Center. What a class organization. Two days ago I saw a San Jose Sharks player walking through Frank Ogawa Plaza with his hockey stick and equipment bag heading towards the Oakland Ice Center in Uptown. I knew he was with the Sharks because the previous day I happened to see a story of a Sharks player coming to the Oakland Ice Center to instruct kids. Great story. The Sharks manage the Oakland Ice Center and do a tremendous job with outreach to local kids. What a class organization in contrast to the type of ownership we have with the Oakland A’s. We have an ownership which has turned its back on Oakland. An ownership which sends representatives to just about every town, but Oakland. How I wish we had the Sharks ownership in Oakland instead of the greedy self-centered carpetbaggers we’re stuck with. I love our Oakland Athletics but the ownership, including silent Billy Beane, have shown that they could care less about Oakland as a community. It really is sad.
Agree the Sharks are very classy…and considered one of the best run franchises in all of sports…..not only my opinion but also Forbes—-but I think you point out the obvious Nav…you don’t have to be located in Oakland in order to be part of the community and to connect with fans from around the Bay Area.
Jeffrey writes:
“I mean aside from all the quasi lawyers posting their different rationales for lawsuits, or lack of lawsuits, by the City of San Francisco, the City of Oakland, or anyone else….”
“Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer…..”
[blather, blather, bad attempts at humor, snip]
“I guess I just don’t see any angles for either San Francisco or Oakland to actually win a lawsuit….”
Whoopee. The front-page poster noob turns out to be a quasi-lawyer himself.
Glad you caught the irony.
Mental Health Break
Conan’s day with Doug Llewelyn (and there’s a guy with an A’s hat at one point!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkIwhsVys_c
Go A’s, we’ll just have to see what motivated San Jose to go ahead and do an EIR and begin acquiring land without any implied promises to get the Oakland Athletics from Oakland. This will all come out. We’ll eventually find out what was said to San Jose by either Lew Wolff or MLB to get them moving on this. The reason that San Jose went ahead and began acquiring land is possibly the same reason why Oakland couldn’t proceed Could it be that Lew Wolff was discouraging Oakland all along, while encouraging San Jose? Do you think that’s a remote possibility, Go A’s? I vaguely remember Mr. Wolff’s campaign to pacify Oakland leadership. Remember he told Ron Dellumns “Don’t break you pick on this one, you have other priorities.” I also remember Wolff’s successful attempt at pacifying Dick Spees with a chummy appearance behind the A’s dugout. Wolff couldn’t even wait until Dellumns got elected to begin working on his slippery pacification out of Oakland. And now, for San Jose interests to come back and point fingers at Oakland by basically saying “why didn’t you do what we did” when the deck was completely stacked in their favor from the very beginning, is completely ludicrous.
You keep saying things will “come out.” Where? This dramatic Hollywood courtroom you’ve conjured in your head?
Nav,
You’re constant whining and B.S. is stating to get a little old. There is nothing, I repeat, NOTHING!, that Oakland or SF can do if MLB decides that the A’s should relocate to San Jose. What part of the former Seattle Supersonics relocating to Oklahoma City didn’t you understand? And that was done without the NBA having an anti-trust exemption. What part of that exemption don’t you understand?! And just for the sake of argument, let’s say it does “all come out” and it’s been a Wolff conspiracy all along to move the A’s to San Jose…WHO CARES! Oakland or SF can’t do anything about it (other than cry like little Bitc..$!). Teams from all the major sports leagues have moved in the past (including the A’s and Giants), as have major corporations relocating to other cities/states. It’s our American capitalist way…learn to live with it, or continue to go over the deep end.
The writing was on the wall, yes. Wolff has SJ ties. He would be thrilled at the opportunity to build a ballpark in SJ. He isn’t a “SJ only” guy, I’m sure he would love to see the A’s playing in AT&T park, if the Gints didn’t exist. Bottom line is, the A’s don’t belong to the city of Oakland. Nor to the people of Oakland. Nor to the people of Philadelphia nor Kansas City. It’s the way MLB is run. My advice? Root for Cal baseball. You know they will never move, because they belong to the University.
Tony, It seems that the ends justify the means to you. That’s OK. I understand your passion to have a team in your hometown. It’s not right, but I understand your passion. I hope you understand our passion for the Oakland Athletics, or as “A’s” fans like to call them, “The Oaklanonly Athletics.”
what fans call them that again?
Jeffrey,
Aren’t Oakland Athletic fans called “Oakland only fans” by many pro San Jose types? Also, any “Bay Area” fans, are not Oakland Athletics fans by definition. The “Bay Area” is “OK with me” line of thinking, is an implied license to Lew Wolff to do as he pleases and abandon Oakland. Can you admit to me that you’re not an Oakland Athletics fan but just an “A’s” fan regardless of where they play? You folks really need to admit to yourselves that you’re not Oakland Athletics fans.
I would say I am an Oakland fan and an A’s fan. I like them both independently of one another.
Or, maybe a different way is, there are a lot of great things in Oakland. My particular favorites are the Chabot Space and Science Center, the Oakland Zoo, Lake Chabot Golf Course, Rockridge, Piedmont Avenue…
The A’s can be in Oakland, or they can be anywhere else nearby and I will still like them. Both Oakland and the A’s.
Another thing, if the A’s abandon Oakland, does Oakland now become part of San Francisco Giant territory? Or, does Oakland have a right to be an independent market, per the precedent set by San Jose, free to pursue any all teams?
That depends on what/if MLB decides to change, but I doubt MLB would have 3 teams in the Bay Area
Navigator,
Please shut up. I’ll second that your BS is becoming quite annoying.
I’m actually a Yankees fan, but your Oakland ONLY crap is really… what’s the word. useless. I’ll root for the A’s since I live here and despise the Giants, and I’d say I’m an “A’s” fan. Oakland A’s, Fremont A’s, Dublin/Pleasanton A’s, San Jose A’s. You root for the team. Not the City.
Don’t knock people for not being an Oakland homer like yourself.
I still wish these comments were in the forum, that way I could block the Oakland only trolls like you.
Sorry, much dumber post than anything from Navigator. “I’m a Yankees fan and root for A’s because I despise the Giants…” Puhleeeeeeze.
I’m an Oakland Athletics fan. That’s the name of the franchise. Thats the name on the World Series trophy’s. Sorry folks, they ARE the Oakland Athletics. I’m sorry, you cant just throw “Oakland” aside because it isn’t convenient to you. What’s with this “Oakland Only” references because many more people identify with the Oakland Athletics than they do with the “Bay Area” Athletics, the San Jose Athletics or the Lew Wolff Athletics. That’s a fact. There are 25,000 people signing a petition to make sure that the team remains the Oakland Athletics. Also, Yankee fan, how would you like it for your team to b moved to Hoboken or Jersey City and be called the Hoboken Yankees? That’s funny that you’re a Yankee/A’s fan, when most Yankee fans are cross dressing Giant fans. They mostly go to Giant games and their second favorite team is the Giants. As far as Oakland territorial rights go, if the Oakland Athletics no longer exist per their relocation to San Jose, then Oakland has a right by precedent to pursue any other team looking to relocate to the geographic center of the Bay Area and the nearly 3 million fans in Oakland’s territory of Alameda and Contra Costa Counties. If a struggling Pittsburgh or Kansas City franchise wants to relocate from their smaller market to Oakland, who’s going to stop them? Lew Wolff? Bud Selig? They would have already abandoned Oakland and set a precedent that territorial rights are no longer valid.
There are 5 World Series trophies with the name Philadelphia on them
There are 4 World Series trophies with the name Oakland on them
Hogwash. They will have set the precedent that the league owners can vote to reorganize existing territories. Which isn’t a precedent but something that already exists in the league constitution.
So Jeffrey, you’re for Oakland to be shut out of MLB if the A’s abandon Oakland for San Jose? You think that it would be right for Lew Wolff to claim the Oakland Metropolitan Area even though he doesn’t want to play there? Isn’t this waht the Giants do to San Jose?
Why no. I’d be perfectly content for MLB to declare that the Bay will be shared territory just like all the other two team markets. I think that should satisfy your sense of indignation. Now Oakland can be claimed by not one, but count em, two MLB teams. Win win.
Yes, but those other five belong to the Philadelphia Athletics. I don’t live in Philadelphia. We are talking about the Oakland Athletics and their accomplishments.
I’m responding to what you said, which is false. You said… “Oakland Athletics…that’s the name of the franchise. Thats the name on the World Series trophy’s.”
Oakland is the current city associated with the Athletics franchise. The Athletics were not founded in Oakland, so stop insinuating they were. It’s insulting to those of us who are ATHLETICS fans and appreciate the rich history of the franchise.
“One of the American League’s eight charter franchises, the club was founded in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in 1901.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Athletics
Maybe you should write the A’s and ask them to stop showing highlights from the pre-Oakland days and to take down the five world series flags?
There are 25,000 people signing a petition to make sure that the team remains the Oakland Athletics.
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Delusional.
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Also, Yankee fan, how would you like it for your team to bemoved to Hoboken or Jersey City and be called the Hoboken Yankees?
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Also delusional.
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A Cincinnati suburb built a community baseball field that had a few similarities to the Reds’ old ballpark, Crosley Field — a fake plywood scoreboard that doesn’t work, a few dozen old seats, and some similar outfield dimensions.
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Maybe you and your Facebook army could organize a similar project for an Oakland suburb.