San Jose SEIR out
- 02.12.10, 16:28
- 105 Comments
It’s 137 pages and will take much of my weekend. The rest will be either sleep or SF Beer Week events.
If you’re wondering what happens next, here it is:
E. CEQA PROCESS
The SEIR is being circulated for public review and comment for 45 days. During this review period, all interested parties are encouraged to read the document to inform their understanding of the project and its anticipated environmental effects, and to submit written comments regarding the environmental issues and analysis presented in the SEIR.
Every comment letter received on the SEIR during the 45-day comment period will be reviewed by City staff and the environmental consultant team, and the City will provide a written response for every substantive comment received addressing environmental issues associated with the baseball stadium. The SEIR will be revised as appropriate in response to comments received, and the City will prepare a Final SEIR, consisting of the SEIR, the public comments received, the City’s responses to substantive environmental issues raised in the public comments, and any text revisions resulting from the responses to comments. The Final SEIR will act as a supplement to the previously certified EIR.
The Final SEIR will be released, and a copy provided to all commentors, a minimum 10 days prior to the public hearing before the Planning Commission of the City of San José to consider certification of the Final EIR. If the Planning Commission certifies the Final EIR as complete and in compliance with CEQA, the Commission may then hold a public hearing regarding any recommendations related to the proposed baseball stadium. The decision of the Planning Commission to certify the Final EIR may be appealed to the City Council. Instructions on filing an EIR Appeal can be obtained by calling (408) 535-3555 or at http://www.sanjoseca.gov/planning/applications/.
The City Council will hold a public hearing to consider certification of the SEIR, in the event of an appeal. If the Council upholds the Planning Commission decision and certifies the SEIR as complete and in compliance with CEQA, the Council can then consider approval of actions for a stadium project as described in the Baseball Stadium in the Diridon/Arena Area EIR, as revised by this SEIR. It is anticipated that the City Council will place a ballot measure before the San José electorate regarding the use of public funds for construction of a stadium. Pursuant to provisions of the San José Municipal Code, the City may utilize tax dollars to participate in the building of the stadium only after obtaining a majority vote of the electorate approving that expenditure.
See you on the other side. Of the weekend, that is.
Wolff needs to sign off on that “swap.” Wolff can’t have his cake and eat it too. Also, cities have different interest among various neighborhoods. Large spread out cities like San Jose have varying interests depending on districts and neighborhoods. Do you really think for example, that the large Vietnamese community in San Jose puts a high priority on bringing the Oakland A’s to San Jose? Do you think the residents of San Jose are going to overlook a 100 million dollar budget deficit and hop on Lew Wolff’s bandwagon just because they all live in the large city of San Jose? Oakland and Alameda County worked on the Coliseum Complex very nicely. Despite San Jose’s and San Francisco’s larger populations, San Jose has only one small hockey arena and San Francisco has no arena at all. And yes, when you distort the economic growth of a city for selfish purposes, that is “denigrating” the city.
Jeffrey, The East Bay Express is about what’s going on in Oakland’s economy and dining scene. You linked an article about a project at Jack London Square. Although the project is taking a little longer to complete than expected because of the current economy, the place has opened a few new restaurants like Miss Pearl’s, and Boca Nova to name two, along with signing a new lease with Sungevity http://www.contracostatimes.com/business/ci_14335406. It’s going to take a little time for Jack London Square to get where it needs to be, but it will get there. Jeffrey, I really don’t think you value Oakland very much. I know you say that you do, but when a positive about Oakland is brought to your attention your instinct is to downplay it and belittle. You said yourself that you don’t believe the East Bay Express article and that you use Oakland to take the Ferry to San Francisco. Anyone who truly loves Oakland would not stand by and watch the A’s leave town and applaud the entire process.
San Francisco Giants already have a minor league baseball in San Jose and have a their sponsership in the silicon valley. A’s can’t move to San Jose. Oakland is going to take forever to build a stadium. A’s has a choice: Fremont or Las Vegas. http://www.astofremont.org
“Small hockey arena.” You have to get a shot in there, don’t you? Can’t just defend your city – which you’re doing a poor job since you’re not actually countering my arguments – you had to get a shot in there.
I have a question for you, Nav. When I moved this site to a new server, part of the motivation was to better get ahead of spam and trolls. Thankfully, the comments sections are spam-free. Trolls – we’re still working on it. The new capabilities have given me more insight into where commenters are coming from. As expected, most of them come from either the East Bay or South Bay.
However, when I looked at the IP address from you, I noticed that it’s not coming from Oakland. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I checked and found out that you aren’t posting from Montclair, Downtown/Uptown, East or West Oakland, or even Piedmont. You’re posting regularly – actually, all the time – from Danville. Can you explain to me why such a staunch supporter of all things Oakland, a man who calls himself Mr. Oakland on another board, posts from Danville of all places?
I’d say your credibility on this site rests with your answer.
Marine Layer, Thanks for the Danville address. You just increased my home value by a couple of hundred thousand. I didn’t mean to set you off. I could see someone being upset by “small” in another context, but an Arena? My goodness, threats and all kinds of personal attacks? I really can’t believe your reaction. It can’t be because I used the word “small” to describe the Arena. OK, let’s call it a mid size arena. Sheez, calm down, take a deep breath and relax.
Sorry troll, you’re gone for a bit. Perhaps you can learn how to debate properly. Or answer a simple question.
I don’t think winning is all that matters. The Raiders have been losing and a lot of people (including me) don’t like them because of the way they do business. The Cubs lose and people love them.
When the 49ers won in the 1980s, most of the U.S. liked them because of the West Coast Offense, when the Steelers won in the 1970s, they weren’t popular because their success was mostly defense and running.
I’m in my 60s, so I suspect I’m older than most, if not all commenters on this excellent site. If my screen name leads you to believe I’m a Dodger fan, you’re correct. I’m a native Angeleno and much as I try to escape it, I guess I’ll always be a Dodger fan. However, as a result of my residence in San Jose from 1989 to 2006, I’m also an A’s fan, although if I’m honest, the Dodgers always come first. You didn’t think I’d root for the Giants, did you?
The preamble is only to establish that (1) I’m old, and (2) I’ve lived in both LA and the Bay Area. Fundamentally, LA is better for baseball and the Bay Area is not so good. You don’t believe it? When has anyone talked about the Dodgers or Angels leaving SoCal? Shit, in the past 20 years, there’s been serious talk about both the Giants and the A’s leaving the Bay Area. In Candlestick, the Giants were often pretty good, but they always got crappy attendance. The A’s were even better, but their attendance figures were even worse. Bottom line to me: Despite high incomes and 7-8M people, the Bay Area is actually iffy when it comes to supporting two MLB teams in an era where competitive teams need to draw 3M attendance. And that’s why the Giants would love to see the A’s leave.
Even though the Giants have settled into being the same old mediocre franchise (they love second place), Phone Company Park has seemingly locked them into that 3M attendance figure. That park isn’t as great as they say it is (go to Pittsburgh sometime) and the location isn’t really all that great either, but that, coupled with SF tourism and corporate tickets, means the Giants are in good shape.
Then there are the A’s. And here’s where I’m going to agree with Navigator, the Oakland booster, about where the team should be located. I agree Oakland or somewhere in the vicinity is the best location, but I strongly disagree with Navigator as to whether such a scheme is feasible. As I see it, Navigator’s argument in favor of Oakland can be divided into: (1), it’s the best geographic location; and (2), Oakland deserves to keep the team. As to (1), well, I think it’s a no-brainer. Oakland is central, and San Jose is tucked away down to the south. As to (2), oh, man. It’s hard to think of a city less deserving than Oakland of the A’s, an organization that’s consistently put a good product on the field, and has also been a good corporate citizen. Navigator, you’d do better if you’d spare us the paens to the good burghers of Oakland and Alameda County, those wonderful folks who love the A’s so much. That’s BS. You know it and we know it.
But I don’t think San Jose is any better. I don’t think San Jose will prove to be a good MLB town. In baseball, there are Boston, St Louis, New York and LA. And then there are Pittsburgh, Detroit, Kansas City and Tampa Bay. Oakland has always been in the latter group. San Jose will be there, too. I don’t think the A’s will do any better in San Jose than they’ve done in Oakland. Sure, the jumpstart from a new stadium will provide increased attendance for a while, but then, the A’s will settle back into the same old rut, trying to get 2M attendance in an era where 3M is needed to be competitive. San Jose would prove to be an especially difficult nut to crack, what with the inadequate area to be dedicated to the new stadium and the plans to build a park with 32K capacity. 32K? Do the math. You can’t even get to 3M attendance, so if you need the revenue that the Dodgers get from gate receipts, you’re going to have to charge a lot more for tickets. Wolff is not smart here, and the city of San Jose isn’t being smart, either. Ticket prices will approach Fenway levels. Anybody think people in San Jose will pay that?
Oakland is the best location for a new ball park. Oakland is centrally located and a nice, new stadium could draw all the way out to Sacramento. But it’ll never happen. As Navigator points out, Oakland gets a lot of undeserved bad press. There are many good things about Oakland, but the one thing that can never, ever be termed “good” is Oakland’s city government. Rife with ineptitude and corruption, bedeviled with failing schools, Oakland is the city that “can’t.” And inasmuch as city government is key to any long-term planning for a major corporate effort such as an MLB franchise, it’s no surprise that the A’s don’t want to deal with Oakland. And since they don’t want to deal with Oakland, the A’s will not build a new park there. Hard to blame them for that.
I look for it to be San Jose or contraction.
What MLS team do you suppose would play in a giant football stadium in Oakland? The Earthquakes already have a site in San Jose for their stadium and they own all of NorCal. So unless you’re talking about an alternate reality it won’t happen.
I believe the word, “pwned” is apt here.
OldBlue, you and I don’t always agree on this stuff, but I appreciate your incredibly nuanced comment.
you cannot compare the Bay Area to Los Angeles because the total population aren’t even close. Los Angeles metropolitan area has 12.8 million people and SF Bay Area has 7.3 million people.
I go to a lot of Dodger games myself and I am proud to call them my second team but let me tell you guys the stadium has a high attendance because Latinos love their baseball, you see dodgers stadium average around 45k per game (in a 57k cap stadium), half of those attendees are latinos. Angels on the other hand – haha, it’s almost as un-diverse as Montana. But they still pack their yard pretty well.
I hope the A’s stay in the Bay Area, I’m rooting for Fremont myself. And you guys talk about contraction all the time – do you guys know when was the last major sports team contracted?! this aint the USFL, XFL, AFL, soon to be WNBA.
anyways….you can’t compare the two metropolitan areas because there is a huge population indifference. Why there still isn’t ONE football team in LA is beyond me.
LOL, Nav must work for the Warriors. If you remember, Raymond Ridder, the Warriors PR Director was anonymously posting positive comments about the Warriors on the Warrriorsworld.net message board. That is until someone checked on his IP address and discovered the posts were originating from the Warriors’ office.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/05/21/warriors-pr-director-confirms-he-authored-anonymous-blog-comment/
Me personally, I think that if the SJ venture comes to fruition, the capacity will morph into the 42K range. Although it’s hard to quibble with your notion of LA being a better baseball market, I think SJ partisans can make a pretty good go of it. Realistically, we ought to be talking about what the SJ market will be like ten years from now, rather than what it currently is today.
OldBlue–not sure where the data is to support your premise that a ballpark in SJ won’t be successful—-ever checked on the cost of what it is to attend a hockey game—and yes they are consistently sold out and have been since they arrived in SJ 15+ years ago—it may only be 42+ games per year and 17,500 fans but it is a data point for the SJ market—–and of course all the naysayers all said the same thing about building the Tank for the Sharks—
I think it has been said over and over—its not about gate receipts as much as it is selling luxury boxes and advertising—and Silicon Valley is where its at today and expected to be so in the future—-which is why the ’9ers also want to be down here also.
Check out independent rankings of sports markets in the US and you will see Silicon Valley as one of the most attractive—high disposable income, underserved market, large corporatations…obviously Wolff must believe it if he is willing to invest $500M of his own money in building a ballpark—besides AT&T you don’t see that kind of deal on the table anywhere else.
Amen brotha!
Bob Fitzgerald was doing that too.
There is a large Latino population is SJ too. Very large in fact.
Problem is though, the Warriors draw well too.
NoAsWS, do you have any opinion on whether Oakland or SJ would be better. I don’t why you would have any bias. Whats your opinion?
Yup—but the A’s don’t—-no need to regurgitate the A’s attendance woes in the East Bay—regardless of what some will say these are facts not projections—-definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome—-
Now, if someone on AN would get around to banning cRaZyK@PsDuDe (who I suspect is the same person as navigator, or should I say, nAvIg@tOr), there can be some peace and common sense in these discussions, like OldBlue’s comment below.
I have a question for you, Nav. … when I looked at the IP address from you, I noticed that it’s not coming from Oakland. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I checked and found out that you aren’t posting from Montclair, Downtown/Uptown, East or West Oakland, or even Piedmont. You’re posting regularly – actually, all the time – from Danville. Can you explain to me why such a staunch supporter of all things Oakland, a man who calls himself Mr. Oakland on another board, posts from Danville of all places?
I’d say your credibility on this site rests with your answer.
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Good sleuthing, ML, but I have to disagree with your final sentence. Nav’s credibility on this site has nothing to do with where he posts from, or his explanation thereof.
It has everything to do with the content of his posts: provincial, full of spin and highly selective “facts”, loaded with misinformation and disinformation, cliched, illogical, inconsistent, often unrelated to reality, founded on a sense of Oakland entitlement, alleging conspiracies, and compulsively repetitious.
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He has about three talking points written on his left hand, and no sense of embarrassment about regurgitating them dozens of times over. He seems to subscRibe to the Joseph Goebbels school of public communication: repeat a lie often enough, and people will eventually come to think that it’s true. If these posts all originated from Oakland, they still would lack any credibility — they are sly and propagandistic, regardless of their point of origin.
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I’d say that the recurring presence of Nav’s incessantly recycled talking points diminish the value of this blog by about a quarter or even a third, given the amount of space and time that they waste, and the number of rebuttals that they inspire.
NoAsWS just want to live in a boring city with cows and horses. Also since Warm Springs residents aganist the stadium support NUMMI? NUMMI can create a health problem for the Warm Springs residents. But since NUMMI and the stadium is one mile, why they support NUMMI than the stadium, unless Warm Springs residents like toxic site. I would rather live near the stadium than a manufactoring plant. San Jose will never happened. Lew wolff have been searching sites for years. I bet he looked at the Jack London square but don’t think the site is a viable location for the A’s and poor leadership. Last year, Kieth Wolff like the Warm Springs because it’s near the BART Station. Since NUMMI opposed both sites in Fremont, no lawsuits including the NIMBY’s.
NoAsWS just want to live in a boring city with cows and horses. Also since Warm Springs residents aganist the stadium support NUMMI? NUMMI can create a health problem for the Warm Springs residents. But since NUMMI and the stadium is one mile, why they support NUMMI than the stadium, unless Warm Springs residents like toxic site. I would rather live near the stadium than a manufactoring plant. San Jose will never happened. Lew wolff have been searching sites for years. I bet he looked at the Jack London square but don’t think the site is a viable location for the A’s and poor leadership. Last year, Kieth Wolff like the Warm Springs because it’s near the BART Station. Since NUMMI opposed both sites in Fremont and the plant is shutting down, no lawsuits including the NIMBY’s.
As an A’s fan, I’d like to see the San JosA’s (http://www.ibabuzz.com/tricitybeat/2008/12/15/maybe-it-was-meant-to-be/ and http://noasws.blogspot.com/2008/12/inconvenient-truth.html). It’s the only way the A’s can become a first-tier team with big market and revenue. San Jose also needs the A’s to promote it’s national profile. If you put in Lew Wolff’s shoes, it’s very obvious which location can make the best return of your ballpark investment. Now it’s how much they want to pay off the Giants, either by money or politics.
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BTW, the Wolffs never like the Warm Springs sites (too much like Oakland Coliseum location, and even worse) . It’s a group of real estate developers (many of them not even living in Fremont) begging the A’s to Fremont for whatever sites they proposed. The residents in Warm Springs, Mission San Jose and Irvington account for more than 50% of Fremont population, a very big NIMBY.
As an A’s fan, I’d like to see the San JosA’s (also see: http://www.ibabuzz.com/tricitybeat/2008/12/15/maybe-it-was-meant-to-be/ and http://noasws.blogspot.com/2008/12/inconvenient-truth.html ). It’s the only way the A’s can become a first-tier team with big market and revenue. San Jose also needs the A’s to promote it’s national profile. If you put in Lew Wolff’s shoes, it’s very obvious which location can make the best return of your ballpark investment. Now it’s how much they want to pay off the Giants, either by money or politics.
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BTW, the Wolffs never like the Warm Springs sites (too much like Oakland Coliseum location, and even worse) . It’s a group of real estate developers (many of them not even living in Fremont) begging the A’s to Fremont for whatever sites they proposed. The residents in Warm Springs, Mission San Jose and Irvington account for more than 50% of Fremont population, a very big NIMCY (Not In My CitY).
PS. ML, sorry for the multiple posts, one of the link was wrong. Please keep this one and delete the prevous. thx.
I know someone who live near the proposed stadium, support the A’s movin to Fremont. Irvington, Mission San Jose, and Warm Springs. I wonder if NIMBY’s is not even U.S. Citizens or even they are not even 18 years or older. I guess they can’t vote or majority of Asian are not interested in politics so they won’t vote . How sad!!! 68,558/210,000 residents of Fremont voted Measure MM: Transient Occupancy tax on Nov 4,2008 elections and it passed.. Bob Wasserman and Steve Cho supported the A’s move to Fremont. As a results, Bob Wasserman was elected as a mayor of Fremont. I’m 100% sure the mesure will pass to build a major league baseball stadium in Fremont.
The Warm Springs plan was announced right AFTER the 2008 election. Had the city announced it before the election, Bob Wasserman will lost the election. Besides, Wasserman didn’t win by majority. Steve Cho didn’t support the stadium. He was the only councilmember request a city wide vote.
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Of all three cites, Oakland and San Jose have much stronger support for the stadium, and need the ballpark to revitalize their downtowns. While in Fremont, there is too much opposition, and the city of Fremont doesn’t have the infrastructure and budget to support a successful ballpark.
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FremontA’s, do you know where Fremont’s downtown is?
Fremont is proposing a midtown project near the Fremont BART Station. I’m hoping that NummI will be the future a true downtown with a ballpark. I those NIMBY’s should buy their homes at the midtown project that will take too long to get built, brand new low income Irvington houses, or leave Fremont. Milpitas or Cupertino has a nice homes to raise a family. No crime in Saratoga it make me feel safe. Fremont has a lot of crime. With or without stadium, Fremont already have crime. De-anza college is better than ohp
Fremont is proposing a midtown project near the Fremont BART Station. I’m hoping that NummI will be the future a true downtown with a ballpark. I think NIMBY’s should buy their homes at the midtown project that will take too long to get built, brand new low income Irvington houses, or leave Fremont. Milpitas or Cupertino has a nice homes to raise a family. No crime in Saratoga it make me feel safe. Fremont has a lot of crime. With or without stadium, Fremont already have crime. De-anza college is way better than Ohlone College. Most Asian go to De-anza college than Ohlone. Don’t assumed that Fremont school is better or kids is well here. If A’s comes to Fremont, they will make the school better. The majority residents of Fremont do want the A’s here.
My feelings exactly. This behavior is exactly what makes him a troll.
Sorry, my last note was supposed to be a reply to Connie Mack.
I read the city’s plan again. There is no mention about “midtown” or “downtown” anywhere in the document. The stadium proponents will use rosy projection and beautiful picture, but the reality is Fremont is not an urban city, and a Fremont stadium is just not feasible.
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The city staff also acknowledged in the council meeting: “build a stadium in the field doesn’t make it downtown.” Their plan is to build the stadium first (phase 1A), the HOPE to do phase 1B and phase 2 later. Even with phase 2, the area is still a long way to become an urban downtown. Besides, do you know how long (and how much money) would it take to de-contaminate the toxic lands around NUMMI?
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If you are an investor, would you build a stadium and HOPE it becomes the downtown? Or you can just build a stadium near an EXISTING downtown.
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Please don’t beg the A’s to Fremont. Lew Wolff is just not interested in Fremont. Business developers want the stadium (no matter at what cost), but most Fremont residents oppose the stadium idea.
Daveinsm doesn’t think comparing the Bay Area to the LA is fair because of the population differences. Well, I disagree. I think it’s eminently fair to do so. Two teams in LA, two teams in the Bay Area, all bound by the economic rules pertaining to MLB. Dave actually supports my growing feeling that the Bay Area may just not have sufficient numbers of people to support two MLB teams in this high-dollar era. Furthermore, Dave actually provides misleading numbers. He uses the US Census Combined Statistical Area (CSA) figure for the Bay Area, but then uses the Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) for the LA area. CSA is always larger than MSA. LA’s MSA is indeed 12.8M, but the SF MSA, which omits San Jose, is only 4.2M. When you add in San Jose, you reach the CSA figure of 7.4M. However, when you look at LA from the CSA perspective, you get a figure of 17.7M. Yes, a 10M difference. And, just for comparison, the other areas with two MLB teams have CSA of 22M (New York), 9.7M (Chicago) and 8.2M (DC-Baltimore). Anybody checked out how the Orioles and Capitols are doing these days? In ballparks built by taxpayers.
More Latinos makes the difference? I don’t think so. And even if it does, so what? The population figures are what they are.
Sharks? I’m hard pressed to see where one can draw any conclusions applicable to MLB attendance from attendance at an indoor winter sport with very high priced tickets where 17K attendance is considered great. And, not to offend anyone, but let’s just say hockey doesn’t occupy the same tier in American sports as baseball and football. Plus it just doesn’t take nearly so much population and money to support a hockey team.
Some years ago, Marine Layer provided a link to a very interesting Business Journal article regarding the ability of various regions to support various sports, with the criteria including population and income levels. As I recall, this article found that the Sharks’ success in San Jose was quite predictable. On the other hand, it turned out that the Bay Area was quite iffy when it came to supporting two MLB teams, specifically because MLB is the sport that demands the most people and the most disposable income. In good news for Bay Area A’s fans, it turned out that neither Portland nor San Antonio, the most mentioned MLB wanna-be cities could come close to supporting an MLB franchise. And interestingly, it seemed the A’s would have the greatest chance at long-term success if they were to move to either the New York or LA areas.
Hey NoAsWS, Do you want a pot clubs where soon to closed NUMMI plant? It will bring thousand of high paying jobs that Fremont Citizens Network dream of?
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=7278906
FremontA’s – Could you please construct proper arguments? You’re doing your side a disservice by going on like this.
Sorry, I know Warm Springs won’t welcome it. You can keep it for yourselves.
Is this your dream? http://tmgpartners.com/pdfs/1673_001.pdf You should live there.
The new stadium in Fremont will be similar to AT&T Park in San Francisco and Petco Park in San Diego. That NUMMI will turn into a true urban downtown with a stadium that will be a true destination.
The plan is not a proposal, it is a Conceptual Approach. “The proposed site plan can be modified, expanded, and revised based on input from the A’s, MLB, the community, staff and Council.” The toxic site can be funded by NUMMI, the city, federal grants, and other grants. Did you know Ford Motors plants in Milpitas pay $12 million to clean up the site and sell to a developer and then is now a Great Mall. We can do that in NUMMI plant but turn into a urban downtown. Why will you think its going to take 50 years to get funded and clean up the site?
If I was a developer, I will build a condo and retail near the ballpark. If I were Cisco CEO, I will build a campus near the ballpark so employment can go to the game after work and go out for lunch or dinner.
Major developer like the Dutra support the A’s moving to Fremont. They will do anything to bring the A’s in Fremont and invest and develop that area.
I actually think Nav’s comments serve a purpose.
They unite the blog against him.
So FremontA’s, you really are Dutra? Do you know how many years it takes after Ford closed the plant and became Great Mall?
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Do you know Fremont is not a large city like San Francisco or San Diego? Do you know how many ways of public transportation can get to AT&T or Petco Park? The Fremont location is much more similar to Oakland Coliseum, and will become a disaster for the city and the A’s.
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Feel free to build your condo near any existing stadium, but it’s just a bad city planning to build a stadium near existing large suburban residential neighborhoods.
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Allow me say it one more time. A good business plan builds a ballpark near existing urban downtown. You cannot build a stadium and HOPE it will suddenly become a downtown.
I really like the NUMMI site with the stadium and mixed-use development and more like a ballpark village similar to Pacific Commons than a stadium with surrounding with surface parking http://newballpark.blogspot.com/2008/12/all-you-need-to-know-about-warm-springs.html But why Warm Springs residents don’t opposed a mega mega surface parking at NUMMI?
I’m hoping Major League Baseball choose Fremont.
Also, contraction requires 2 teams. Now that the Twins, Marlins, and ex-Expos all have new stadiums, the only other team that might possibly be considered would be Tampa Bay– but their lease goes through 2026 or something. So contraction would seem a very unlikely outcome.
So LA has 17.7M and the Bay Area 7.4M? That would seem to support the argument that you really can’t compare the two.
Census projections have the Bay Area passing Chicago over the next few decades. There is no better market to move the A’s to.
oldblue – i dont know when was the last time you went to a dodgers game @ Chavez Ravine – but assuming from your screen name – 80′s? 70′s? I can guarentee you that the cultural dynamics at a dodger game has changed since you’ve left Los Angeles. Latinos love their baseball. Imagine if you had a Los Angeles Curling team, u think that would sell out 45k tickets per game? (extreme example I know, but im only using it to prove my point.)
Latinos don’t make a difference? I guess if you take away 20k attendees every Dodgers game doesn’t make a difference.
10 millions people doesn’t make a difference? …… are you serious?
Old Blue,
You seem sincere, and a good deal less crazy than Navigator. But you’re just as wrong as he is in the idea that Oakland is “central” in any meaningful way.
- First of all, “central” needs to be measured in travel time, not just mileage. On a weeknight, getting to the Coli from the Peninsula or South Bay is frequently a hideous 2 hour ordeal. If you use a more meaningful metric like, “How many people within a thirty minute drive,” a San Jose park will serve just as many people as an Oakland park.
- Second, like Navigator, you ignore the fact that there is already a team serving virtually the exact same “central” location. Eyeballing a map of metropolitan Los Angeles, Downey seems to be about in the middle. Do you really think the Dodgers and Angels would draw as well if they both played in parks in Downey, six miles apart (as the A’s and Giants would if a yard was built in JLS)?
- Third, all populations are not created equal. Access to Napa and Sonoma is not as valuable as access to Santa Clara County.
- Finally, San Jose is far MORE central to the most important demographics – big corporations. These are the customers for the suites and club seats which drive revenue in the modern day game.
You state that 3 million is a magic number for viability in modern MLB. Based on what, exactly? Only nine MLB teams reached that figure last year. Do you believe all 21 other teams are on the verge of failing?
The difference between the 32K park the A’s are proposing and a more typical 40K park is 8,000 cheap seats. These are the ones that will sell for somewhere between 10 and 25 bucks on average, be discounted heavily in promotions, and sit vacant for lower demand games. As ML has posted previously, these also happen to be among the most expensive seats to build, cost-of-construction-wise. From a profit and revenue standpoint, these are nowhere near as important as the ability to consistently sell the premium seating. Also, the scarcity of seats for high-demand games will sell seats for lower demand games, just as they do in Boston.
“Ticket prices will approach Fenway levels. Anybody think people in San Jose will pay that?” Prices may well be similar to Fenway, and yes, absolutely, people will pay. That’s the whole point. Residents of Santa Clara County have more disposable income per capita than almost anywhere else in the US. Equally or more importantly, Santa Clara County has a higher density of free-spending corporations than almost anywhere else in the U.S. Even Fenway prices are a relative bargain compared to NHL prices, which South Bay residents happily pay. I fully expect a 32K ballpark in San Jose will generate more gate revenue than 2/3 of the other teams in the bigs, regardless of capacity.
Since this thread is shot to hell anyway, check out this SI archive article from a 30-year old Frank Deford written a week and a half before the Oakland A’s first game in 1968. Saw the link on AN. Here is the article summary:
A City Of Complexes
Oakland has long been traumatized by the glamorous city it faces across the Bay, but its other complex, a gorgeous stadium and arena facility, is new. Suddenly Oakland finds itself with five pro teams, all of them clawing for attention and devotion from the same elusive fans—choosy suburbanites, angry Negroes and haughty San Franciscans
I have no idea why this comment ended up so far up the thread
There seems to be something screwy in the replies within this thread.
That said, what I gather from the article is, I suppose, is that it’s true that the more things change, the more they stay the same. DeFord remains a lion in sports journalism, sharp as a tack to this day. He ends the piece with this flourish: