When the weather turns bad, it makes hard core night (Mondays) seem like a piece of cake.
From Chris Townsend's (@townsendradio) Twitter feed last night
The announced paid attendance was 10,670. Obviously the number of people that actually showed up was only a small fraction of that. Blame it on a number of things: rain, ownership, team, stadium, whatever. The real implications of something like this happening are that teams lose money and fanbases look bad. 8,000 no-shows equates to $100,000 in lost concessions revenue. The walk-ups that didn’t occur and the parking passes that weren’t sold also add up. And it makes us look like we’re a bunch of fair weather fans, literally. Are we? I’ll be there today.
One other thing – Tuesday’s are pretty much out for me, so yes, I was secretly rooting for a rainout so that I could see a double-dip today.
newballpark.org 
I think there a small, but strong and dedicated core of A’s fans that will go come rain or shine, despite stadium situation, despite fights between ownership and issues with the A’s future. However, I do think that a lot of folks, not sure if they are the Oakland-Only folks, or just the folks that come once or twice a month to see a game, that seem to be fair-weather fans and aren’t showing up. Now whatever gripes they may have: team not spending, hate against Wolff/Fisher, trading players all the time, I understand frustration, but I don’t think the team merits being abandoned.
Look at the Dodgers. They had a TERRIBLE ownership situation with McCourt. He mortgaged the teams future, didn’t spend to improve the team as much as he could have and drove SOME fans away. But they still drew 22-25,000 a game, albeit being a mediocre product. Games there are more expensive, the team was no more talented than the A’s and Dodger stadium is not public transit friendly unless you wait for the Union Station shuttle or take MTA bus down Sunset. Yet desptie hate for McCort, they still go.
To me thats what is frustrating. All the perception of the A’s tanking I think is misplaced. I do believe Billy that they missed their window and need to do a true tear down. Conversely, as bad as the A’s will be, they can’t be as bad as well Mike Oquist and Tom Candiotti were in the rotation and Mike Blowers was at 3rd. I hated Schott/Hoffman, but I still came to games, because I love my team, no matter what.
I guess my question is, have we lost Oakland fans permanently or can they come back, and what happens if and when the A’s move to San Jose? Have we effectly lost a base and have to recreate one with the remnants of what is left of A’s fans? Despite it all, I think those that stay dedicated have to be some of the most dedicated fans in baseball. Im still proud to be an A’s fan.
Perfect storm. To add insult to injury 1 hit…….
That shot reminds me of old, damp, cold, weeknight Candlestick back in the 80’s. You build it and they will come (back)! I have no doubt that Cisco Field will see the same success amongst MOST current A’s fans as has AT&T Park with Giants fans. Now, going back to “MOST”:
Yes, the hardcore Oakland-only fans will most likely avoid Cisco Field in SJ. But what about those traditional A’s fans from Union City-south and from Tri-Valley? Ill bet the vast majority find their way to San Jose. Add in South Bay A’s fans like me who (for reasons re distance, family and work) only go to a couple of games a year and, well, those shots of an empty Coli will be a thing of the past. BTW, props to Rhamesis for being a SJ resident AND who frequents the Coli regularly.
I think we are solid and Informed Fans..My Family and I try to make 15-20 games a Year. We have made two so far.
But the reason’s that attendance is down is so obvious.
1)We ( A’s Fans) are constantly being told how crappy our Home is.
2)We are told over and over that this CRAPPY Money grabbing ownership group needs to move to S.J.
3)As soon as you make a connection to a player(s) Beane trades them for other players he will trade.
4)Nothing but negativity from ALL the local writers and Reporters. (Chris Townsend tries to keep it real)
5)The A’s FINALLY get there own station and nothing but Giants talk and how crappy the A’s have it.
6)Most of us A’s fans are Blue Collar working people, and the Recession (I know everyone has suffered) but it has hit us very HARD. I have friends that are A’s fans that haven’t worked in over a year.
7)See #2
8)See #2
worst that this was a game that mlb network televised nationally so the entire country saw as empty of a venue as you could get.
…
a’s need to move to sj asap!
I was there yesterday and asked an usher about the attendance, she said it was the lowest attended game she’s seen in 15 years
Going to a game can’t get more affordable; $8 tix, free parking, I felt bad bringing my own food that I bought a beer and a very soggy churro
But . . . BACON!!
I feel that the complaints about Wolff and Fisher as being greedy and unwilling to invest ignore key issues and I think ML has talked about the first.
1. Comparison to Haas-era A’s. – Haas lost money running the A’s, no one aside from Illitch in Detroit really just dumps money on a team, game has become much more expensive. Wolff and Fisher can’t just dump cash on the team with a desire just to win, they need enough money to build a stadium and keep their debt-levels low.
2. Schott and Hoffman/Moneyball – Lets all remember, when we had the superstars, we didn’t keep them then, in fact there was less lee-way given to Beane/Depodesta to get players.or keep players. The one exception being Eric Chavez. Last year demonstrated Wolff/Fisher are willing to spend if it will lead to wins, but sometimes it doesn’t work out.
@JS,
welcome to the blog. Problem is:
1) the coliseum IS crappy! We don’t need to be told this.
2) ownership NEEDS TO BE ALLOWED to move to San Jose, or else corporate supported PRIVATELY financed ballpark doesn’t happen.
Allow #2 above and all of your other concerns (ie loosing players) become things of the past.
Bacon makes everything better.
Scary thing is, it’s gonna get worse before it gets better too.
Thanks for the welcome Tony D,
I have to respectfully disagree with you. Is the Coliseum a state of the art venue…Hell no…but a crappy dump, NAAAAGH!!! the powers to be want you to think that. The only reason this pathetic ownership group wants to move is free land…Build Stadium…Develop surrounding area…Then sell and pocket MILLIONS, they do not give a crap about this once proud Franchise, the Fans, or Baseball in general.
If Wolff and Fisher really think its that bad in Oakland then why don’t they sell to one of the two local groups that want to purchase them? Both these GREEDY Bastards would make a huge profit. But no they don’t want to go that route when they can manipulate the local media (some not all Micheal Urban kept it real today on 95.7) try to manipulate the fans (who they think are stupid Disposable pawns) cry to MLB about there lack of support then move to S.J. and pocket Millions upon Millions.
Let’s go OAKLAND!!!
John, your characterization of their plans in San Jose at least, are inaccurate. Wolff and Fisher aren’t getting free land in San Jose. They’re paying for it. They’re also not developing the surrounding area as they own no additional land around the San Jose ballpark site. There are no ancillary developments going up around the SJ ballpark either that are owned by Wolff or any of his partners.
Also IF as you say there are people willing to buy the team now in Oakland, and that the A’s owners would make millions selling the team (and they would as the value has gone up a fair amount since they bought the team from Schott), and they were only in it to make a profit… why wouldn’t they sell? Seems to me if that were the case and they were only in it for the money, they’d leave now and take the money. Seems to me since they aren’t taking the money they’re obviously in it for another reason… beyond money.
ML: You must have been sitting right above me. I was downstairs…If a San Josean like myself, with a 10-year-old in tow, can make the trek to the Coliseum, why can’t the so-called diehard “StAy crowd? Unless the “StAy” is actually so small it’s inconsequential. Filling the stands with even 25,000 a night every night – not just when the Yankee$, Giants or Red $ox are in town – would do much to defeat Wolff’s argument that the East Bay isn’t cutting it for MLB. The A’s at the moment are not hopelessly out of contention and have MLB’s Curiosity of the Week (Cespedes) on the roster but no one comes out just the same.
re: If Wolff and Fisher really think its that bad in Oakland then why don’t they sell to one of the two local groups that want to purchase them?
…who are these folks who want to pay $400 million or more for the A’s and another $500 million for a ballpark in Oakland? Why haven’t they come forward? All we’ve heard are rumors. Whoever buys the A’s wanting to keep them in Oakland will be made very much aware of having to privately finance a new ballpark 100%.
@JS I have been to almost every current MLB ballpark (25 out of 30, including all the ones that even arguably could be considered bottom of the pack). The Coliseum is indisputably a crappy dump.
.
Anyway, where did you EVER see Wolff or Fisher use the words “crappy dump?” Please link. All I’ve seen them say is that the Coli is adequate as a modern MLB facility, which is indisputably true. And I haven’t heard them make comments like this anywhere near as often as I hear the Oakland-only crowd complain about them supposedly making comments like this.
Until I actually see a group say privately or publicly to media that they are willing to buy the A’s and actually have the money, I don’t buy that such interest exists, no matter what Matier and Ross or Lowell Kohn or whoever mentions. Andy Dolich? Nope. Piccinni? Nope. Sorry I just don’t buy it. Especially with the A’s future stadium situation in Oakland non existent. And no, Coliseum City is not realistic with no CRA funds.
I have no trouble believing their are folks out there who would buy the A’s. I just don’t believe there are any of them who would build a privately-financed ballpark in Oakland.
@bartleby what I meant, agree totally. And obvious rejoinder to that would be there has been no viable publicly-financed plan to build an A’s stadium in Oakland.
if there were somebody or some group interested, i think we would’ve heard by now just as ellison a few years ago made it known he wanted to buy the warriors. agreed with those above that you may a group who could buy the a’s themselves but doubtful they got the pockets to fund a 500+ million dollar baseball only park somewhere in oakland.
…
as it’s been said before, if you had the choice between picking sj and oak as a businessman, you’re gonna pick sj everytime. sure you may have to pay more when dealing with tr rights and pissing off a good # of fans but for long term viability it’s sj or bust imo.
…
in other news knbr just fired ralph, doubt 95.7 would hire him.
@ Nicosan – “Comparison to Haas-era A’s. – Haas lost money running the A’s, no one aside from Illitch in Detroit really just dumps money on a team, game has become much more expensive.” FWIW, I responded to a similar comment a couple of weeks ago. I know the perception is that Haas lost money running the A’s but I’m not sure where it originated. I will paraphrase my response from a couple of weeks ago. From ’81-’87 the franchise lost $30 mil, largely due to refurbishing the Coliseum and the farm system. By 1988 the team began earning profits. From ’88-’92 the team was profitable but I have been unable to determine how much. To be conservative let’s say the team earnings were flat during those years. From ’93 until the team was sold in ’95 there were $15 mil in further losses. Haas paid $12.7 mil and sold for $85 mil. I ran the numbers and, assuming they made no money from ’88-’92 his return would have been about 5.234% annualized. Not great but not a loser either. Had Haas sold for what the team was actually worth, i.e. ~ $100 mil, his return would have been more like 8% or so annualized. I have been unable to verify accurate data particularly for the profitable years. As I said in my earlier post, if you have financial data that contradicts mine I would be happy to retract my post and stand corrected.
Dan and the rest of you naysayers,
The land in SJ will be bought by this piece crap group on the Dime, then the surrounding areas will be purchased in a very shady way, take a look at how DARTH LEW just bought that Hotel and the people involved. The two groups that I and hundreds of other people are talking about were reported two weeks ago in the Trib,Chronicle and the Times, one of them headed up by the owner of Pay and Pak who has many real estate holdings in the Bay Area, the other is a group of silent local Business groups who many think George Zimmer is involved with. As far as financing the first group has secured half and the other half will be financed in the same manner the Rays in Tampa Bay are securing…this was reported in the last two Days. And no bartleby the group didn’t actually say this crappy stadium…thats called a metaphor. The San Jose thing will be dead soon enough there is no way the Giants give them up. there is no price you can put on it. why do you think there front-man owner is a successful Attorney?
When i first read this site I mistakenly thought it was full of real Oakland A’s fans, but after reading your replies i think you are Kool-Drinking fans who think San Jose is the only answer, and hey if your from San Jose that’s cool you deserve a team. But i don’t think it will be an MLB team.
just move the A’s to san jose already
As ML noted, the EB-5 process to get money from immigrant investors is very challenging. Say the money comes in, which it could. That would require MLB and ownership to agree to do business with foreign investors, likely Chinese interests, maybe South Koreans. MLB owners are very wary of doing anything with really unknown investors. Look at the discussion that has happened over the Guggenheim group’s ownership bid to for the Dodgers and that is 7 investors, all American paying $2.15 billion cash. So I think EB-5 for either A’s or Rays is very iffy.
As for the Oakland group, if any of the old Picinnini Group wants to try again for the A’s they are welcome to, but Dolich hasn’t expressed any interest, Pic is with the Padres for the time being and Zimmer hasn’t stated interest again either. So again, I have my doubts. I think the best option for Oakland was when Schott and Hoff approached the JSA to rebuild the coliseum but they were blown off. Then they were blown off by Brown and JSA for the next decade. So you will forgive if I have doubts that city leaders are at all serious about anything other then keeping the A’s in town in the situation they are in today. I have no allegiance to SJ, Im not from the Bay Area, I love going to the Coliseum, but its not a baseball stadium anymore and Oakland hasn’t done anything to seriously find a viable option for the A’s. They are the ugly stepsister in comparison to the Raiders and Warriors who are the JSA and Oakland’s priority.
watching the end of the a’s-royals game on mlbn and the kc announcers said the announced attendance was just over 12k but that there was much less there at the game so broxton shouldn’t feel any pressure from the a’s fans there attending. what happens with the bases loaded a few minutes later? back to back hbp and a’s win!
re: So you will forgive if I have doubts that city leaders are at all serious about anything other then keeping the A’s in town in the situation they are in today.
…Correct. They’ll take having the A’s stuck in the Coliseum or having some generous billionaires build a ballpark on their own dime. Oakland will not spend any $$ at all on a new ballpark…
John, your conspiracy theories about San Jose aside, there is no land being purchased around the ballpark site by Wolff. If others are buying (which you’ve provided no proof of), it’s because they’re smart and smell an opportunity to build around the Arena/Ballpark area and turn a profit. Wolff however is not one of them and is getting no shady land dealings around the area despite your paranoia. Yes he bought the Saint Claire recently which is nowhere near the site but he’s also owned many other properties in the downtown area for decades. This is not news.
As for the Oakland groups, if those Oakland groups are real they should come forward and make an offer for the team that Wolff can’t refuse. Otherwise they either don’t exist or aren’t really interested. So far none have made an offer to Wolff… until they do they’re just vaporware.
Also John, being a true A’s fan and believing that San Jose is the best option for the team’s future are not mutually exclusive positions. Oakland does not have a monopoly on true A’s fans despite their name currently being on the team (and remember they’re the third city to have the privilege, a privilege that Oakland has done shit with that privilege as of the last decade and a half).
Hey its cool for anyone to voice their viewpoint and John has his position which I disagree with wholeheartedly. We are all A’s fans after all. I do agree with Dan, you can be a True A’s fan and support SJ as the best option, just as much as an Oakland-only A’s fan. At the least we can respect each others positions because this thing is going to get resolved at some point.
Not a big fan of someone telling me I’m not a real fan.
Dan, I did not mean to say you weren’t a real fan, who knows maybe you are, chill out dude.
As far as “conspiracy theories” NAAAGHH!!!! not in my DNA, just trying to keep it real. You need to do your Homework about Wolff and Fisher…good luck on Fisher he pays some Tech Geek to keep him off Wikipedia. Look at there past deals, yes great Businessmen but they do not need to buy this Team and do what they have done. Sports is suppose to be an escape for the fans and as soon as it turns the way this Stinkin Crappy Low-Down Ownership group wants it that will be the day that it dies. I understand the other groups run it like a business, but they do it in away that is not so SCREW YOU!!!
As far as the Real Estate deals and the other groups that want to buy the Team, why do I need to prove this or anything for that matter to you? It’s out there Dude just look it up.
Hey on a brighter note the A’s won and at the end of the Day that’s all that matters (In a fun sports sense) and if they move to San Jose, I will still be a fan, it will just be the end of what I consider real Baseball in the Bay Area…LETS GO OAKLAND!!!!
You are a real fan Dan, don’t need anyone else to prove that.
C’mon RM! we’ve been at this way to long together! Since when is encouraging everyone to ignore inflaming posts a bad thing (ie deletable)? It should be free game if someone comes in here and is allowed to incite and inflame at will.
We all know the real fans are the ones not showing up.Duh.
Jeff Francoeur is all for the A’s staying in Oakland. “So much history with this franchise … I wish somebody could build a new stadium, because I think the A’s deserve to be in Oakland.”
These crowds are only going to get worse. It’s the perfect combination of a struggling team, losing key players over the years, unknown current players, hated ownership (whether valid or not), an old ballpark, threats of moving, a perception of the A’s being “second rate”and games are not an event ala SF Giants.
@eb,
J.F. is more than entitled to his opinion. My opinion: I for one don’t hate ownership, believe the A’s deserve to be in $an Jo$e, and “threats of moving” are totally understandable, given that the city of Oakland has given the A’s the middle finger for the past 15 years! (won’t even mention corporate support and how it relates to private financing).
I’m highly skeptical that the A’s could have a future in Oakland. BUT the factor that will change attendance is not San Jose vs. Oakland; it’s new ballpark vs. rusting 1960s dump. It just so happens that San Jose is a more viable place to build that ballpark than Oakland.
.
If you put the Coliseum in San Jose or San Francisco, A’s attendance would be exactly what it is now. The South Bay and East Bay are all part of the same Bay Area market, and the Athletics unfortunately are a distinctly minority taste in all parts of the market. At various times in the past they were able to partly compensate for that by fielding better teams than the Giants and having the superior ballpark. But with those advantages now distant memories, the franchise has sunk to near oblivion in recent years.
.
So assuming Cisco Field is ever built, the big long term question is: Can the A’s leverage the excitement of a beautiful new ballpark to finally develop a significant all-weather fanbase in the Bay Area?
Ah, it’s great when ignorant Oakland-Only folks show up here, isn’t it?
@ LS – Ignorant? Wow.
Delusional? Uneducated? Stubborn? I guess there are other words too.
Coliseum City nor Jack London Square are never happening and neither is San Jose- Nothing takes this long- mergers worth billions of dollars are decided in matters of months- I understand things take time, but not half a decade before they even have tentative approval……
so whats plan c???? I dont have an answer curious what everyone elses opinions are before this franchise loses the last parts of its remaining fanbase under this terrible Wolff tenure
@all – gojohn10 referred me to this article by Fox Sports’ Tracy Ringolsby, which has a blurb from Selig underneath the main story about the Dodgers and Mets. Somehow it went under my radar.
Carry on.
@ “And no bartleby the group didn’t actually say this crappy stadium…thats called a metaphor.”
.
Um, yeah, I get that. But the point you were making – like other Oakland-only’ers before you – is that management has been persistently running down the venue, with the implication that has had some impact on attendance. It’s just not true. Maybe a handful of times over the last seven years, Wolff has pointed out the venue is inadequate (which he pretty much has to say if he’s ever going to get a new ballpark, and which it indisputably is). There is no established correlation between this and attendance. This meme is BS. If you think you know otherwise, link to something that backs you up.
.
“The San Jose thing will be dead soon enough there is no way the Giants give them up.”
.
Not all up to them. Clearly you haven’t been following what’s going on very closely; see ML’s post, above.
.
“there is no price you can put on it. why do you think there front-man owner is a successful Attorney?”
.
What on earth makes you think lawyers know anything about assigning a financial value to territorial rights? You’re barking up the wrong tree.
@JS “As far as the Real Estate deals and the other groups that want to buy the Team, why do I need to prove this or anything for that matter to you? It’s out there Dude just look it up.”
.
You’re talking to many folks here who have been following this blog for six or seven years. Meaning, you’re talking to folks who have read virtually every piece of public information that’s been published on this subject (thanks to ML and Jeffrey). You’ve made several misstatements or misrepresentations of fact in a very short time. You need to do better than telling people to “do your homework” and “look it up.” Dude.
“Delusional? Uneducated? Stubborn? I guess there are other words too.”
And I’m sure you say that to all of their faces at Oakland home games, don’t you?
Went to the Radiohead show tonight at HP.
Was there ever an analysis of where people were gonna park for games and events at Cisco Field?
@Pudgie – As part of the EIR, there was enough existing parking inventory throughout downtown to service both arena and ballpark events, and very little new parking would be built for the ballpark itself. The argument there is that it would force much of the traffic into the “original” downtown and force it away from the ballpark/arena. After the EIR was certified, the Sharks brokered a deal with the City for a new garage north of HP Pavilion.
You all seem to be a tight group, that really does not want to hear a different opinion than your own. Bartleby you seem to be very delusional, take a deep breath dude…maybe go outside and go for a walk.
Well anyway I thought it would be fun talking about the A’s with fellow fans, I didn’t think there would be so many angry comments. In closing i will let you all be, See Ya Later.
LETS GO OAKLAND!!!
Ha ha ha… This is funny to read through.
@ML
Thanks for the link on your last post in this thread. That is good news, at least from the standpoint that Selig actually says something about the situation, and it seems he agrees with Wolff that Haas’ “permission” was for the Gnats actually moving to SJ, and doesn’t think the permission was for perpetuity.
.
As much as anything we’ve heard so far this year, this is the most solid evidence that the SJ move will get done. It’s not a matter of “if”, but “when”.
@eb: “And I’m sure you say that to all of their faces at Oakland home games, don’t you?”
.
I don’t remember doing that, no. No one seems to be able to respond when I tell them that, yes, attendance is important, however in today’s baseball economics teams need corporate support that doesn’t exist in abundance in Oakland. Or when I tell them that the Oakland government has been fucking the A’s over for a good part of two decades now, and cite examples. Or when I tell them that their own neighbors would rather go to the shiny park across the bay than the one in their own backyard.
.
It’s easy to ignore your own locality’s failures and put the blame on the other ‘man out to get me’ – rich people.
@LS Fair enough, however, calling a group of people insults over the internet and than failing to do so when you see or interact with them in person comes across as a little shady. I mean, these are people you have probably stood next to and cheered with, then you call them stupid through the safety and anonymity of the internet? I don’t get that.
LoneStranger is 10 foot tall on the Computer.
Seen it before the bigger you talk on the Computer the bigger WIMP you are in real life.
@ G & G – That is so true.
Columbo,
You know in a sick way i kind of feel sorry for people like Lone Star…real angry at people (maybe life in general) and there only escape is to try to sound Tough behind a Keyboard.
@Lone Stranger: I think he’s referring to Lone Star from Spaceballs.
Oh yea, I’m totally a bully online. You can tell that in everything I write. (Hint, this is sarcasm.)
.
Can you point out the quote where I said people were stupid?
.
– Ignorant: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
– Delusional: having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions
– Uneducated: not having undergone education:
– Stubborn: fixed or set in purpose or opinion; resolute
.
Which of these means the person is stupid? Please don’t put words in my mouth.
.
Maybe you just misunderstood me. I wasn’t trying to be a dick. I’m just frustrated like the rest of you, and it gets old having people come here and talk about how Wolff is the problem while ignoring all the rest of the facts, and then proclaiming that their point is correct because ‘it’s obvious, go look it up” when in reality the burden of proof falls on their shoulders.
Good one Briggs, maybe i was thinking of the Beer…boy that was bad beer back in the day.
Lonestranger (wow i go it right) you might want to think of getting a Hobby.
Maybe wood working, gardening. you know something to get your mind off things.
Peace.
Ironic that the Oakland only posters are ignoring the more relevant fact of bud selig’s statement about getting the A’s to SJ- easier to try and pick a petty fight than talk about facts…
Considering how virtually every commenter uses an anonymous handle, most of you don’t have a platform from which to lecture anyone, Thread closed.