Here the green-and-gold heroes sit, winners of 9 of the last 10, only 1/2 game from the last playoff spot in the American League. It’s all very impressive for any number of reasons: young pitching, young sluggers becoming professional hitters, nearly every move made by the A’s front office paying off so far. Despite this, there’s a little hesitance going into this week’s six-game homestand, with two games against the West-leading Rangers and four against the East-frontrunning Yankees.
The Yankees series is always good for near-sellouts every game, and the Rangers bandwagon has been filling the Coliseum pretty well lately. But who cares about the other team’s fans? We should be filling up the stadium. Tuesday night’s game is, as usual, a free parking night. The A’s deserve a heroes’ welcome. The pitching is excellent even with Brandon McCarthy out. Numerous guys are hitting homers like it’s batting practice. The team has budding stars who are all young and under control, and the team is flat out fun to watch with no big money egos to ruin a fan’s enjoyment. We should have 20,000 fans showing up on Tuesday. I fear we won’t come close.
There will be people who cite their dislike of Lew Wolff, John Fisher, Billy Beane, or whatever’s convenient to not go. They’ll claim they were the biggest A’s fans during the Moneyball years, the Haas era, during BillyBall, or all the way back to Charlie Finley. Stop with the excuses, put your differences with ownership aside, and go to the games. The tickets are inexpensive. There’s no better weather to watch baseball than at the Coliseum in July/August. The team is pretty damned entertaining. Most importantly, this scrappy group of A’s consistently of mostly young guys and a mix of veterans notices when we show up. En masse. They don’t play in a vacuum, and as much as they appreciate the small-but-loyal crowd that shows up currently, they appreciate it even more when the place is packed. With A’s fans. All of the experts and columnists had this team buried in March. Personally, my expectations were low. This team deserves for us to buy tickets, supporting them, cheering them on with full voices, all of our energy, every breath. Whether the A’s are buyers or sellers or both doesn’t matter. We have a core to build on for years, and they’re not going anywhere for a while. That’s what matters. So enjoy it.
The A’s showed up this year. How about you?
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Off the soapbox. The maximum possible attendance for this week is a little over 210,000. It would be unrealistic to predict that they’ll hit that target. But they could pull healthy crowds for the entire week. If the A’s average 22,000 for Texas and 32,000 for the Yankees, the total attendance for the homestand will be 172,000. Should they hit that mark, the team’s attendance in Oakland (not counting the Japan games) will surpass 1 million fans in 48 home dates. That’s five games ahead of last year’s pace and seven better than 2010. Can we hit that figure? I think we can. I’ll be there for the first three games of the homestand, before going on a weekend camping trip. Let’s do this.
newballpark.org 
Ab-so-lutely! I’ve only missed 7 home games this season. Would be great to see a sea of Green & Gold Tuesday night.
This A’s team is more than good they are a contender for the AL Wild Card.
ML is right, the fans need come out. I myself have been to 3 games this year and plan on making a few more.
They lead the AL in ERA and they are hitting the ball extremely well of late.
Every trade Billy Beane made last year has turned to gold.
Gio Gonzalez for Tommy Milone and Derek Norris.
With 2 other prospects AJ Cole and Brad Peacock still in the minors. Norris is a power hitting catcher who will anchor the backstop for years to come. Milone may not be sexy out there but he gets the job done with smart pitching.
Andrew Bailey for Josh Reddick
Reddick is by the far the team’s MVP. 20 hrs at the All-Star break and is anchor of the offense. While Bailey has not played all season and his loss was negated by the next trade for Ryan Cook.
Trevor Cahill for Jarrod Parker and Ryan Cook.
This one is the steal of the year. Ryan Cook is already an All-Star and a stud at closer. Jarrod Parker is far better than Cahill will ever be and reminds me of a young Mark Prior with his delivery. What was Arizona thinking with this trade? JJ Putz has been garbage at closer this year while Cook is simply nasty. Colin Cowgill is hurt right now and the jury is still out on him.
Chris Carter and Brandon Moss are showing they have some serious power and Bob Melvin has the good problem of not being able to start both of them.
Yoenis Cespedes has been awesome when healthy and Coco Crisp until he just got hurt has been on a tear of late. Seth Smith has not been too shabby either thus far and was a good free agent signing along with Grant Balfour.
The defense has improved, there is power in the lineup, and the pitching is the class of the American League.
This team is setup to contend for years to come. My hope is they are able to keep this team together for the long haul and open up Cisco Field in San Jose with a winning team.
I shall be there wearing me “Yoenis es mi hombre” shirt. Go A’s!
i shall be there tuesday. lets go oakland.
I’ve been to three games so far this year and will be there again at the end of the month. BK (before we had kids), I could show up at any old A’s game at the spur of the moment and I went to dozens of Sharks games, too. Those days are over for the time being.
Planning to go impromptu next week against the Rangers (can’t stand Yankees fan). In light of your recent post about random seat assignments via the walk up machines, should i buy through the web then (i usually get it in advance through STH friends, but they’re going to the Yankee games)?
Btw ML > are you going to do any coverage into Cal’s new football stadium?
@Anon – Probably. Not so much for a game. I think there’s an open house planned for October.
sadly don’t think the a’s will draw much more tue night, maybe in the low teens but the wed game, dollar wed for a day game, i could see in the high teens-low twenties if we’re lucky. maybe i’m just beat down over the past 4-5 years with one of the lowest attendances in baseball but i don’t think there is a huge ground swell of a’s fans that will show up on a random weeknight game against a non drawing team.
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if the a’s couldn’t get that during the hey day run back from 00-06 when they were a consistent playoff contender, i don’t see it happening for a team that “could” be a contender. this 2 week or so stretch will tell a lot especially the four game set against the nyy where they’ve absolutely owned the a’s whether it was at the new yankeee stadium and especially the past few seaosns at the coliseum.
I’ll be there Wed and Thursday. Maybe Sunday.
I’ve got Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday.
Why are you trying to boost attendance? Oakland A’s fans have been vocal and persistent in their admonitions for the Wolff/Fisher ownership group. They continue to follow the team closely, watch on tv, and go to occasional games. But reducing their support is the only lever they have to send a message to ownership and to register their displeasure. It’s a misguided idea that this will “prove a lack of fan support.” It will only prove that to someone already convinced that the fan base has no value.
If the A’s drew 3 million fans this year it would not change the equation for Wolff/Fisher. It would enrich them, however, and bolster the possible sale price, and generate momentum for San Jose.
As a fan who dislikes the current ownership group (like any sensible fan would after being disrespected for so many years) what tangible benefit is there for me to “rally” behind this cause?
corrected for you.
Don’t hold out to the enormous pressure of the 40K Oakland-only FB fans now…. :X
OK, I may have to go to a game to get a Yoenis es mi Hombre shirt.
@Sid: Totally agree on most everything you said but thought I’d mention that Smith was actually traded for and not signed as a FA. Another great trade by Beane as Outman or Moscoso aren’t doing much of anything.
I’ll be there Tuesday. The way it looks right now, this team will be playing meaningful games for the rest of the season. And crowds have to start showing up. Everyone keeps saying, “Hey Lew, build a competitive team and people will show up.” There are no more excuses, this team is young, exciting and extremely fun to watch. I think the people who are saying they don’t go because of the ownership might be a very small crowd, but I have no way to quantify it. Ballparks are the crown jewel of any franchise, and the A’s play in a crappy one. In any case, it feels very, very good to be an A’s fan right now.
And there are also three really good promotions that coincide with this series. Looking forward to it.
I will be out there Tuesday night. Who woulda thought in the beginning of the season that the Rangers coming in late July would be a meaningful series? It’s as if this team is playing great because they are young and don’t know any better. It feels very, very good to be an A’s fan right now!
Actually if their number is correct (and mind you I’ve always found it suspect) they now claim they have 51,000 fans. Though their site also has hasn’t been updated in a month now (and it had only been sporadically maintained for the preceding 2 months).
What’s probably a better gauge of how many people are really “Oakland Only” (for any of the 3 sports) check out Save Oakland Sports FB page. Only 312 users. Lends credence to the idea that LGO was puffing their numbers with just general A’s fans who liked a page covered in A’s logos with the A’s long time chant for a name.
Rhamesis:
I could not agree more. We have the same situation in Cleveland, young exciting team,
no head cases like Albert Belle and an exciting future. I have season tickets behind
home plate, upper deck, but right behind home plate , eight dollars a ticket.
I can’t understand why we are last in MLB attendance.
Apologies for my repetitive comment. It didn’t go through the first time, and then later on, it did.
“Why are you trying to boost attendance?” Such an odd question. Maybe because die-hard A’s fans think this team deserves our support? If you hate Lew Wolff more than you love your team, that’s your issue. Wolff-bashing is scapegoating in the truest sense of the word. Geesh.
anononanonanon… you can get the shirt here.
I have an 81 game season ticket package every year. So yeah, I’ve showed up and then some for quite some time now.
re: I honestly can’t see the A’s drawing brilliantly until a new stadium is put up somewhere, Oakland or San Jose.
…Correct. In 2006, when the A’s were leaving the Giants in the dust in the win-loss standings, the Giants were leaving the A’s in the dust at the Box Office. A new ballpark with all the bells and whistles trumped having the better team all the way. It wasn’t even close.
@pjk and Go A’s – well, at this point, Lew has screwed the Oakland situation so badly that nothing short of concession (kiss and make up with Oakland already!!!) or a new stadium in Oakland is going to get the majority of Oakland people back. Lew completely took the piss, to borrow an English phrase.
Ed. – All comments related to the “third world” nonsense have been deleted. A’s Man, consider this your first and only warning. Next time you’re gone.
How has Wolff screwed the Oakland situation? Don’t you think that if he could feasibly build a ballpark in Oakland with no public contribution without going broke, that he would do it? As it is, he lets fans in for as little as $2, opens up the club area to all attendees (unheard of in most stadiums/arenas), offers free parking on Tuesdays, has great giveaways, etc. Here’s some stats to ponder: 1995 – Oakland/Alameda County spend $200 million for renovations for the Raiders; 1997- Oakland/Alameda County spend $121 million for renovations for the Warriors; 2012 – Oakland/Alameda County are prepared to spend $0.00 for the A’s facility needs. Who is really screwing up here?
@LakeShoreOAK–and just to add to what pjk said–we still have no real site in Oakland–MLB had already told city pols that it had to be a downtown site–so to pushing CC is pretty amazing—when are you going to hold your own city officials accountable instead of passing the blame on an owner who is trying to give the franchise some hope by building a privately financed ballpark—which would be only the 3rd in modern baseball history–
For anyone thinking that their staying away is teaching some sort of lesson to the ownership group, you have more loyalty to your antipathy for Wolff than you do empathy for the valiant stand your team is making on the field, and you should be ashamed of yourselves. You’ve turned it around in your head and now you think hating the owners is better than loving the team, and you’re letting that reversal rule your actions. No franchise is smaller than the people that own it: this thing goes back 110 years all the way back through Connie Mack and you should think about the fact that it’s bigger and more worthy of your patronage and loyalty than any one particular crappy old real estate magnate that may own it at the moment. These guys need you in the seats this summer and it means something to them to play in front of more than 3,000 people on a Tuesday night… if you swallow your issues and go out to see these guys play ball, they may even reward you with a run at the postseason, where the delicious irony of winning the new playoff spot that Selig pushed through so fast (didn’t take him three years to decide to expand the Wild Card, did it?) awaits as the national story that might even get the stadium situation moving faster as more eyes around the country come to meet it and wonder why our franchise has been allowed to die on the vine from the Commissioner’s neglect. It only took one lousy Division Series win to save save baseball in Seattle, you know.
I’ll tell you what: If Lew gets holds a press conference tomorrow and asks for donations from the simple townsfolk of Oakland, I GUARANTEE that will go over better than repeatedly saying, “Well, the A’s can’t and won’t stay in Oakland. I am moving this team to San Jose as soon as I can.” And if Lew hadn’t deliberately decided on San Jose years ago, he could have taken advantage of the Redevelopment money that WAS on the table.
Besides (and I’ll say this for the 99 millionth time), Oakland is a better location than anywhere else in the Bay Area…save the whole ‘people are terrified of the place’ thing. If you had a topographical map of the Bay Area, you would be looking right at Oakland to plan the Bay Area around. It’s right in the damned middle of everything and has pretty much all the infrastructure you’d need.
Now, I don’t disagree that Oakland’s pols have also “taken the piss” on a number of occassions, but at least the pols that are there now are whole-heartedly trying to keep the teams. Oh yeah; Jerry Brown, Elihu Harris, Ron What’s-his-name…they all totally blew it. Trust me: I don’t place the blame solely at Lew’s feet. It’s beyond tragic that in this whole mess, OAKLAND AND ITS FANS get completely dissed. Sorry, I take that back. OAKLAND AND ITS FANS aren’t even acknowledged!!!!
“Oakland never cared about the A’s” C’mon, man. WTF is that about????
I agree we need to put differences with ownership aside and attend more games.
But I’m here to nitpick. I just feel you have to be accurate. The weather. Sure, some people get cold or hot easier than others. But in no way, at all, is this true: “There’s no better weather to watch baseball than at the Coliseum in July/August”
Day games? Sure. But night games are simply too cold. Everywhere else in baseball other than the bay area, even Seatlle, has warm, comfortable night games. Sure it’s muggy back east, but it’s not nearly as bad at night, when more games are played.
Wearing shorts, short sleeve shirts, stretching out not bundling up, relaxing, truly relaxing while not shivering while watching my favorite team…is a big part of my envy of almost every other fans experience. We can try to downplay it, we can focus on the great (usually) day game weather that isn’t oppressively hot like those other places, but the truth is many A’s games, many now, are uncomfortably cold (it’s summer!)
I know, you’re trying to bring folks in, not drive them away, but the truth is 95% of night games in Oakland are cold to the point of being uncomfortable, blankets required, layers, jackets. I think if that one fact weren’t a fact, for many, there’d be better attendance.
As it would make my commute to games worse to go to SJ, if they did move there the night games would be much warmer and reasonably comfortable if they did.
How much was Oakland offering for stadium construction? Nothing, I believe. Just some $$ for site acquisition. And now that money is gone, too. And it was going to cost $250 mill for the Victory Court site.
For years, Wolff’s constant message is that is the A’s must leave Oakland, and he doesn’t care if he loses Eastbay A’s fans since he’ll get “better” fans in San Jose. Does anyone in their right mind think that is the way to increase fan attendance at the o.co.?? Nevertheless, many fans, including myself, still show up and support the team despite the stupid, arrogant attitude of ownership. Did Oakland politicians contribute to this mess? Of course they did, but is that any reason to blame and punish the loyal A’s fans who continue to come out despite the insults we continuously put up with? And anyone who says we fans should be ashamed of ourselves just doesn’t get it.
Wolff has miscalculated terribly in thinking that he could just waltz into town and move the team because he thought his frat buddy would make it happen for him. What an ass! And you San JosA’s aren’t any better, spouting out the same crap for years about how horrible Oakland is and what a great location SJ is! If you were real fans instead of purely SJ boosters, you’d all have season tickets at the o.co.
The Oakland Coliseum is cold??? Have you ever been to AT&T Park???? It’s cold AND windy. I can’t imagine why anybody is willing to sit through that for a baseball game.
I work in the Financial District, not too far from AT&T and where the proposed new Warriors arena will be. Trust me: that new arena on the Waterfront will be colder than a witch’s tit, especially during the evenings of the fall/winter NBA season. Yet, I’m sure they will still sell plenty of tickets.
Oakland may not be as warm as San Jose, but it’s definitely not as cold as SF. Again, Oakland is right in the MIDDLE. There is no logical reason to build everywhere BUT the dead center of the Bay Area. Look at a map. Oakland is the key to developing the entire East Shore, and therefore most of the rest of the entire Bay Area.
The only reason SF is more developed than Oakland is because SF was developed FIRST.
Lakeshore, there are plenty of logical reasons to build out of the geographical center. Geography is only part of the equation… Though I have always wondered how a city with such a strategically superior location has been dwarfed by San Francisco over the last century.
re: For years, Wolff’s constant message is that is the A’s must leave Oakland, and he doesn’t care if he loses Eastbay A’s fans since he’ll get “better” fans in San Jose.
…Please provide links to where Lew Wolff said he doesn’t care about East Bay fans and would get better ones in San Jose. You put direct quotes around the word, better, so I’d like to read the direct quote from Wolff. If he didn’t care about the current fan base, he could ask for a vote to move the team to Vegas or Sacramento. Then East Bay fans would have a lot further to go than 35 miles to see the team.
re: Wolff has miscalculated terribly in thinking that he could just waltz into town and move the team
…Wolff lost lots of money trying to keep the team in the A’s current territory in Fremont. Why lose all that money and spend all that time if he figured he’d get San Jose all along?
re: There is no logical reason to build everywhere BUT the dead center of the Bay Area. Look at a map.
…When the current host city is offering $0.00 toward construction of a new ballpark, then the ballpark has to go where there will be enough money to pay for it privately. And that is in the South Bay, unless the East Bay can come up with something. I’ve read of one developer claiming he could build in Oakland privately but I haven’t seen him put his $$ where his mouth is. Money talks. You know the rest of the saying.
@LakeshoreOAK – You’re getting out in front of your skis there. The Tri-Valley area grew by leaps and bounds almost completely independent of what has happened in Oakland. So have Concord and Pleasant Hill to a lesser extent. The Tri-Cities area (Fremont/Union City/Newark) are more extensions of Silicon Valley than suburbs of Oakland. Oakland has potential, that is certain. But we’re way past the point of any other cities being satellites of Oakland.
@Jeffrey – PLENTY of logical reasons? Name one that applies to Oakland. It doesn’t have a natural boundary through it. It’s warm (depending on who you ask). It’s relatively flat, except for the hillside area where the upper middle-class lives. It has water access. It has freeways. It has BART stations. It has an airport…. I’m a commercial underwriter. I’m struggling to come up with a solid reason other than the fact that people are terrified of the place, which can be changed. Oh yeah…and the fact that the city’s leaders have been less than aggressively facilitating progress.
@Marine Layer – I cannot disagree with your assessment of the Tri-Cities but I’m not the first person to think that Oakland is the key. Back in the 60s or whatever, BART was extended to Fremont – not to San Jose (yet). The East Bay culturally ends pretty much at Fremont. Same thing in the Peninsula. Everything south of Burlingame is more culturally aligned with San Jose.
Simply due to proximity Oakland should have started to draw much more heavily on SF’s wealth by now. People are still willing to pay double the rent just to live in SF because they don’t want to live 15 minutes away by BART and that’s almost primarily because of Oakland’s image (somewhat deserved). At this point, more of those SF people should have considered Oakland a viable option. Oakland is grossly underdeveloped and failing to capitalize on what should be a logical alternative to anyone who lives in SF or anywhere else in the Bay Area.
Everywhere there is a BART station should be surrounded by thriving development. For that not to be the case is almost obtuse. I wish I could go back and meet the City Planners so I could kick them in the shins.
ever try to have a logical conversation with a religious fanatic?
PJK, do you think that if Sacramento or Vegas had potential to be more profitable than San Jose he would think twice about moving the team to one of those cities rather than San Jose?
Ted: Probably not, but Major League Baseball in its infinite stupidity has locked itself out of San Jose. Las Vegas and Sacramento remain “open” markets where Wolff could go if he wanted.
@LakeshoreOAK: speaking as someone who grew up in Fremont, while we may be in Alameda county, we’re far more “south bay” than “east bay”. This has increased in the last 25 years I’d say. We’re a lot closer to sj than Oakland geographically as well as culturally. Fremont wants to be Silicon Valley North, not Oakland South.
Boycotting the games (if that is truly what it is) might make some people feel like they’re standing up to big bad Wolff, but I think anyone else who is either pragmatic about the whole thing or has no dog in the fight probably just sees it as there are no fans in Oakland. This seems like a humongous misstep. If boycotting games is truly the strategy of the pro-Oakland camp, it seems to be a horribly faulty strategy. And isn’t there always this screaming about “Build a good team Lew and people will come.” And now, we have a stud, young rotation, a killer double-play combo up the middle, and some big, young sticks. And what’s the response? “Lew hates Oakland, we won’t support him.” This season is becoming special, and I don’t feel bad in the slightest for anyone who wants to miss out because of their disdain for Lew Wolff.
Will only be there Wedensday, I’ll head to San Diego from Thursday-Saturday for Astros and Rockies Padres.
“PLENTY of logical reasons? Name one that applies to Oakland. . . I’m struggling to come up with a solid reason other than the fact that people are terrified of the place, which can be changed.”
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1. It already has a much-stronger MLB team in a gem of a ballpark serving a virtually identical geographic area;
2. It has minimal corporate base, which is needed to support the premium-seat product which drives the profitability of a modern MLB team and is an absolute requirement to make a privately financed ballpark pencil out;
3. Notwithstanding its central location, it is horribly inconvenient to most of the Bay Area’s corporate base (which is overwhelmingly concentrated between San Jose and San Francisco) due to traffic patterns, bridges, and the way Bay Area transit systems developed;
4. It has no viable sites for a ballpark, except the Coliseum site which is hideously unappealing and would not make the A’s competitive vs. the Giants; and
5. It has inept city leadership which has bungled virtually every major decision affecting its three sports franchises for the last 18 years.
Sorry been to 5 games this year but. No more I bought a rather expensive house in Alamaden Valley last summer, thinking A’s will be moving here but you lied to me Marine Layer and now I got a mortgage, tsk tsk boycotting the A’s…till the move is announced..
“Trust me: that new arena on the Waterfront will be colder than a witch’s tit, especially during the evenings of the fall/winter NBA season. Yet, I’m sure they will still sell plenty of tickets.”
A main reason being that the games will take place in a climate controlled indoor environment.
How will a climate controlled arena be cold? Also San Francisco actually has very mild winters, (just as it has mild summers) and an arena in SF will be warmer outside than an arena in Oakland or San Jose many nights. It cuts both ways with the SF weather.
I guess my earlier comment about how much I enjoy living and working in Oakland got deleted in the purge. All of the Oakland bashing on this smacks of mob fear. Stay away from the isolated areas of West Oakland and East Int’l Blvd at night, and you won’t find much trouble in Oakland.
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The three big cities in the Bay Area have character related to their roots. Oakland is blue collar and industrial, with the rail head and the port at the core; San Francisco is the financial and cultural heart; and therein lies the problem for the would-be San Jose A’s. Palo Alto is an academic suburb of San Francisco. The high-tech industry, generally, looks to PA and beyond, to SF. Look at the photos that popped up yesterday when the hotshot Google VP took the Yahoo job — a few depicted her posing in fancy gowns on the steps of the Opera and on the steps of the Symphony Hall — the SF Opera, the SF Symphony. These images are emblematic. San Jose’s roots are as a farm town. I went to HS in Santa Clara in the late 60s; I remember the orchards, the Workingman’s Store in downtown SJ. Since then, the rich farmland has been paved over for townhomes, subdivisions and various campuses. (The semiconductor industry got going in SV in large part because no local regulations were in place to interfere with the chemical pollution the fabricating plants disgorged into the air and the water.) San Jose is utilitarian. San Jose will never have the financial concentration or the cultural cachet of SF. (Of course, neither will Oakland, but we’re close enough to SF to enjoy it and far enough away to have the sun all summer long.) Many of the people at the tops of the corporate hiearchies in SF live in the Oakland, Piedmont, Berkeley hills. Many others live in Marin or down the Peninsula. The money on the Peninsula looks north. imo.
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As I’ve said before, the Giants seized a great opportunity to build the team and the stadium concurrently, and they succeeded completely. San Jose just doesn’t offer the same sort of opportunity. The A’s in San Jose will be much like the Sox in Chicago — a generally successful, storied, perennial number 2. I think it’s theoretically possible for the A’s to remain in Oakland, and do just as well.
I will say regardless of the stadium the team is not leaving the Bay Area. San Jose is the last good location in the Bay Area to build a stadium and MLB knows it full well.
Why move the team to a small market city like Sacramento or San Antonio and have to build a brand new fan base when you can move 35 miles south in the same market to the most affluent part with a downtown location?
No matter what anyone says the A’s will still get quite a few fans coming into San Jose for games from the East Bay.
California is full of fair weather fans and if the A’s are winning, you better believe Cisco Field will be packed full of East Bay and Bay Area people in general rooting for the team to win.
Oakland is simply too close to SF, you need a perfect location to build and Oakland lack it big time. CC is a pipe dream in a bad area of Oakland.
If a Downtown Oakland site did exist or a waterfront site it would be have been explored publicly but the fact is there is not.
We all have to get behind San Jose for the long haul but in the meanwhile let’s support the team in Oakland while it is still there and has a contender.
Tickets are so cheap, I went to the July 4th Boston game and sat 20 rows behind the 1st place line for 35 bucks a seat on a premium day for a game against a premium opponent.
Of course I went to all 3 games during the daytime and will continue to do so. San Jose has such better baseball weather for night games it is not even close.
@xootsuit – Your frequent, almost constant, polite dismissals of San Jose are fascinating. You call San Jose utilitarian. You dismiss the money in San Jose and then do Oakland in the same breath, as if to put them on the same plane. You’ve dismissed Wally Haas’ granting permission to the South Bay as a non-event, when it’s abundantly clear that he was asked first – and if he didn’t grant the request it may never have gone further up the chain. You ignore that the Giants’ very arguments for keeping the South Bay are based on the economic strength of the South Bay. That I find mindboggling. Yet you strive to consider yourself “unbiased”.
There’s nothing wrong with being a mid-market level team like the White Sox. They’re competitive this year, and they go through their up and down cycles as every team without a silver spoon should. That’s a much more realistic target than much of the bluster I’ve heard coming out of Oakland. And yes, it’s “theoretically possible” for the A’s to remain in Oakland, the same way it was “theoretically possible” for the McCain-Palin ticket to win in ’08. Doesn’t mean it’s grounded in reality.
One other thing. If the money is looking towards SF as you say, what’s going to make them look at Oakland instead?
“San Jose will never have the financial concentration or the cultural cachet of SF.”
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You haven’t been back to San Jose since the 1960’s have you…
I find it hilarious that when someone says Oakland and the surrounding area can’t financially support a privately funded stadium, it’s construed as “Oakland Bashing.”
…not just Oakland-bashing, but Oakland hating, even. I spend time trying to persuade people to visit the various sites of Oakland (the zoo, etc) and fend off arguments that the place is not safe. But since I don’t have faith that a new ballpark can ever get done there, that makes me a “hater”
I agree: There is nothing wrong with being a mid-market level team like the White Sox. And I have no perfect plan for keeping the A’s in Oakland.
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My bias, such as it is, may relate more to my youthful memories of San Jose the farm town than to any allegiance with the Giants. I do recognize that things have changed, but things didn’t change significantly until the late 90s. That’s really the crux of the current dispute. Back in 89-90, when Lurie looked to the south bay for a stadium site, the territory happened to be available — i.e., wasn’t yet assigned — because in 68 when the A’s moved west the place really was orchards and farms. No one in mlb cared. Wally Haas still didn’t much care about SCCo in 89-90, when Lurie concocted his futile scheme to move the Giants to SCCo. Lurie was way ahead of his time; a move back then would’ve been futile. But SCCo definitely had developed a huge population, and Lurie was desperate. So the TR deal got struck. It was a non-event then.
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In 92, the new owners of the Giants considered the SCCo part of the value they purchased, although for their present purposes they’re now greatly exaggerating that part of their original business decision. Over the next decade, things really changed. By the time Wolff et al bought the A’s in 2005 (I got that right this time?), SCCo was of significant importance — as a population center. But I still think the north end of SCCo, including the corporate money there, looks to SF.
@ ML – “There’s nothing wrong with being a mid-market level team like the White Sox. They’re competitive this year, and they go through their up and down cycles as every team without a silver spoon should.” You know I have enormous amount of respect for you as I have stated many times on this site so this is not an argument against you and I hope you know that. Rather, it’s an observation that I believe many people overlook based on their belief systems. I would just like to point out that the Chicago area is 29% larger in population than the Bay Area. Since 2001, both CHI clubs have outdrawn both BA clubs by a mere 4.4% although CHI is much larger. The White Sox had 9 winning seasons with an average draw of 26,406 including a World Series title. The A’s have had 7 winning seasons with an average of 25,588 with zero advance to the WS. A point to note is that, when the G’s had bad seasons they actually hit a low of 85% capacity with a beautiful park. What I’m saying is that, if you look at the A’s attendance in particular, you will see a definite drop immediately after the change in ownership. I’m not claiming a conspiracy theory at all or anything like that but I do think we should look at the reality that they were averaging over 26k, which is roughly equal to the White Sox, although the Sox won a WS and the A’s only got out of the LDS once. Not to mention, the supposedly crappy Coliseum had to compete with a brand-spanking new gem of a park, which would attract fans just because, yet attendance dropped during losing seasons. In summation, a new ballpark in Oakland would draw IMHO and, while an SJ move would probably draw too, I don’t believe that’s the end-all, be-all solution to this thing. This is why I believe the G’s are adamant about keeping the A’s at the Coli WITH the current ownership. They didn’t want Piccinini (on record) because, IMHO, we would see a repeat of the past, i.e. the A’s as the dominant BA team. I do believe that the G’s want the A’s to either remain at the Coli or move out of the state. I truly believe they absolutely fear either an Oakland or SJ stadium because that would spell the end of the G’s. BTW, there exists some folk’s opinions who are privy to certain things, although I’m not an insider by any means and do not claim to know anything specific.
@XS – it 2012 not 1960 or 1989. Valley Fair is the top grossing mall per area in the U.S. AMC Mercado is the top grossing movie theatre in the U.S. Also, if you haven’t heard, there’s this little franchise that won 5 Super Bowls and decided to move AWAY from SF to the surburbs down south. WTF were they thinking?! 😡
@Xootsuit: that was the 1960s … The 1960s are gone, 44 years (when the A’s moved west) was a long time. Sure, San Jose was a cowtown then but it isn’t anymore. Today it’s the heart of silicon valley which has been changing the world for the past 30 years or so. A lot has changed, so should our thinking.
@pjk: I’ve found a lot of Oaklanders that way, they just have a massive chip on their shoulder. Even when an Oaklanders praises Oakland they usually do it by way of a put down “the weather in Oakland is so much nicer than in SF!”. It’s like they can’t accept their role, first as second city and now arguably as the third city in the Bay Area. Say anything at all less than complimentary, whether it’s meant as hatred or simple observation and you’ll be a hater. It’s like religion, you can’t have a rational conversation with a true believer.
Ultimately, all of this is sort of irrelevant. MLB, the NFL, the NBA are going to make their decision based on $$$$$$ and $$$$$$ alone. They don’t care about the “cultural capital” of the East Bay or the history, or the tradition of a team in a market, or how nicer or worser the weather is from one city to the other or This that or the other. They’re going to be interested purely in money. All the rest is just bragging rights for the citizens.
Hell, if we want to talk tradition and “we had ’em first” type Arguments then, if there were any justice in the world, the A’s would be sent back to Philly post haste (with maybe a layover in KC as the Yankees “High AAA farm club).
I don’t really care where they end up, so long as they stay in the Bay Area. If somehow they worked it out in Oakland I’d go. If San Jose fell into place I’d go as well. What I don’t want is this stupid process to keep going until eventually they do go to Sac, LV, New Orleans or somewhere far away, then we all lose, right?
Re: The Warriors:
A waterfront Arena in SF is beyond stupid unless it has walls made of glass. That would be really cool and I hope they do something with that – otherwise the view is wasted and I see no reason for the city to approve it.
The Warriors are the BAY AREA’s team and they don’t even have the decency to call themselves the Oakland Warriors. If they move to San Francisco – no problem. The ownership group hasn’t pissed on the fanbase or the city of Oakland. The fans have supported the team through yeeaaarrsss of mediocrity and still won’t mind.
The A’s used to be the bay area’s team along with the Giants. Split caps in the late 80’s anyone?
Then private corporate interests in concert with MLB decided to make this a competition and the Giants went after their BROTHER organization in Oakland. The A’s have been the underdog ever since. The level of insult that is involved in the way Schott/Wolff/Fisher have handled the team for the past decade is not a minor issue. We’re still A’s fans – but no, you cannot spit in my face and ask me to pay you for the privilege.
@anonanonanon: I don’t understand, you said “The Warriors are the BAY AREA’s team and they don’t even have the decency to call themselves the Oakland Warriors.”. Well, Oakland is a part of the Bay Area, not the whole. So if they insider themselves to be the Bay Area’s team it wouldn’t make sense to call themselves the Oakland Warriors.
@xootsuit: the 1960s are history, they’re over, The South Bay is vastly different then back then. Cow town no more, they’ve moved on.
Heres a question:
For the San Jose boosters who really want the A’s to come south, if that was not going to happen would you prefer the A’s to stay in Oakland or leave the Bay Area (presuming another Bay Area city doesn’t come into play which is unlikely).
Oakland boosters, same question but in reverse. Bud Selig won’t let you keep the A’s, do you prefer San Jose over Las Vegas or what?
I’ll go, as neither being a booster of either and say I want them to stay in the Bay Area, period. San Jose makes sense to me on many levels but if they can’t make it work and somehow stay in Oakland then cool, I’m still going. If they end up in San Jose cool, I’m going. I think if they end up leaving for Sac, LV, New Orleans or timbukto
no longer a farm town — a population center, now. that’s what i said. i’m as weary of repeating myself and being unheard as ML is of seeng me repeat myself. Here’s something you people may enjoy. I got the idea to search for it after realizing that we have no first-person account from Wally Haas about what he had in mind when he ceded SCCo to the Giants in the late 80s. (Check out ML’s 3/8/12 blog entry — Wally Haas’s GRANDSON was as close as Chronicle Live could get.) Anyway, in the interesting piece linked below, the chapter on the A’s begins at page 208. The only discussion about competition with the Giants is at page 228. No mention of the TRs deal, that I could find:
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http://www.archive.org/stream/levistraussco00haasrich/levistraussco00haasrich_djvu.txt
Anonx3 – The SF arena does appear to have walls made of glass on the renderings the team released. And I’d expect such a design would be maintained given the amazing concourse views an arena in that location would have.
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Baynativeguy – If SJ doesn’t happen I’d prefer they stay in Oakland over leaving the Bay Area. I don’t think anyone on here who wants SJ to happen would say otherwise. I’ve never had a problem with the team playing in Oakland (hell if I did I wouldn’t have become and A’s fan to begin with). What I do have a problem with are Oakland’s leaders their inaction for over a decade and a half, and more recently the policy of trying to cock block San Jose rather than doing something constructive of their own. I see that as tantamount to driving the A’s out of the Bay Area.
“The only reason to get morally outraged about sports is if you ENJOY being morally outraged.” – – Drew Magary
For the San Jose boosters who really want the A’s to come south, if that was not going to happen would you prefer the A’s to stay in Oakland or leave the Bay Area (presuming another Bay Area city doesn’t come into play which is unlikely)
Oakland boosters, same question but in reverse. Bud Selig won’t let you keep the A’s, do you prefer San Jose over Las Vegas or what?
…you must be brand new here.
This is neither hear nor there really but San Jose is a fine town but it is also a vast suburban sprawl that sprung up out of orchards, it will never hold a candle to San Francisco as a destination city nor should it try to.
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About the Warriors playing in an arena with glass walls…What difference would it make? Virtually every Warrior game is played entirely after the sun sets.
Being a “destination” is San Francisco’s industry, just like Las Vegas and Orlando. Most cities don’t bother getting into that business, so why is it perceived as a weakness of SJ?
SF, New York, Paris, London, Rome, Chicago, Tokyo, etc are all known around the world as being top tier cultural focal points. San Jose probably has issues being recognized by those in the United States. I would wager more Americans probably link Silicon Valley to SF rather than San Jose. It’s just the way it is. Oakland and San Jose will always be in the SF shadow.
San Francisco has the financial industry as well…The point is that San Francisco is a world class city and San Jose is not and never will be and should stop trying to be like or rival San Francisco.
@ Ted – In what
Ted – In what way is SJ trying or rivaling SF? Please elaborate with specifics. If anyone is/has been “trying”, it is Oakland….so they A’s should move, right?! :X
@ Ted – Sometimes I think you’re just a misplaced big city guy (no offense – my wife is also). I enjoy the peace and quiet that affords more suburban “non-tourist destination” area, although SV in general is well known enough.
It’s kind of funny….Oakland only proponents make it seem like themselves vs. the world, while SF-Gnat koolaiders seem to make it like it’s “SF Francisco – Bay Area” only…..no wonder they are so opposed to a move to the South Bay!
I do not conflate “world-famous” with “world-class.”
Having been to several continent as well as the world’s largest cities, SF rates well below the likes of NY, Shanghai, London, Chicago, Tokyo, etc. It’s world reknown yes, and known as “the City” for us NorCal folks because there’s nothing else like it here, but honestly I would rather live in SD or even LA then SF.
I always get a chuckle out of Frisco always parading itself as “world class.” I grew up 40 miles from New York City, which is Frisco X 10. Bigger everything, far more of everything. Even San Jose is bigger than Frisco…
@ pjk – having traveled the world to such places such as London, Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, Taipei, Beijing, Paris, Berlin…only peeps who’ve never set foot outside the Bay Area would call it “world class”….
Anon, I’ll confess to being a former big city guy who regretted not living there while in San Jose. Now I am quite happy where I am at. Silicon Valley stands on it’s own just fine, my response was pointed to Dan who seems to think San Jose’s improvements to downtown has put it on a level with SF as far as “cultural cachet” and “financial concentration”. Redevelopment really screwed things up in San Jose for a long time and it always felt to me that they were trying to rival SF.
pjk, San Francisco is a world class city without being New York, they are apples and oranges and size has nothing to do with it.
San Francisco is a global destination city and I have been outside of the Bay area plenty and I have had the pleasure of hearing about how it is viewed from co-workers who came to the Bay Area from all over the world.
San Jose is fine the way it is.
Pjk: I am new here but you gotta jump in sometime!
@ pjk – I happen to know a bit about this simply because of my occupational background. They rank these cities based on a combination of things, such as culture, tourism, cost-of-living, social impact, economic impact, etc. This may be outdated by a couple of years but the top cities in the world, a.k.a., Top Alpha (12 pts) are London, NYC, Paris, & Tokyo. Top Alpha is described as having a very large contribution. The next set of cities would be Alpha 10 pts and described as having a smaller contribution with a cultural bias. These would be Chicago, Frankfurt, Los Angeles, Milan, and Hong Kong. The next 9 pt Alpha would have a similar description and they include San Francisco, Sydney, Toronto, and Zurich. Incipient Gamma would be like Boston, Moscow, and Madrid. Most recently SF was ranked #12 globally, although this may have changed for 2012. Look, I’m no SF-pumper. I grew up in the east bay and I could care less if anyone has ever heard of the suburb that I grew up in. With that said, SJ’s computer industry should account for a large part of the economic piece of the equation. I may be wrong but I think people that are unfamiliar with the Bay Area know it as SV more often than not. I’ve learned over the years that when I travel abroad and someone asks where I’m from, I always say San Francisco or the SF Bay Area. I’m an Oakland supporter and I could care less about SF being more recognized, as it should anyway.
“I would wager more Americans probably link Silicon Valley to SF rather than San Jose.”
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Only those that are ignorant of geography, sociology, politics, or technology would do that at this point. On second thought…
Why is any effort to better SJ perceived as an attempt to “rival” SF? The only city trying to be Frisco is Seattle. San Jose has made strides which really have nothing to do with SF, but maybe that is what draws the most ire.
Both cities are in SF’s shadow but I think only Oakland actually cares … I don’t get that vibe from SJ.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner….maybe its because of our distance and our distinct suburban culture, but all the people i’ve met in school, work, church, etc. don’t want to be S.F. Heck, I think we’d rather live in SD (or even LA), then SF. :X
“San Francisco has the financial industry as well…”
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New York has the financial industry; San Francisco is an outpost. The financial industry in San Francisco is of far less importance to the economic health of the Bay Area than the tech industry in Silicon Valley.
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“The point is that San Francisco is a world class city and San Jose is not and never will be”
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San Francisco is a world class city, and San Jose currently is not. However, it is extremely presumptuous to say that San Jose “never will be.” One thing all world-class cities have in common is they were economic powerhouses at the time they rose to that status. San Jose has an inestimable asset in the form of the tech industry; it is more than possible that, over time, with the right development strategies, it may become a world-class city. Attracting an MLB team would be a strong step in the right direction.
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“…and should stop trying to be like or rival San Francisco.”
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San Jose certainly is not trying to “be like” San Francisco, whose fame is based on being an impossibly picturesque tourist destination. Geography and development history make that impossible, as it is for most cities. Every city tries to better itself, and should; this has nothing to do with trying to “rival” other cities.
“having traveled the world to such places such as London, Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, Taipei, Beijing, Paris, Berlin…only peeps who’ve never set foot outside the Bay Area would call it “world class”….”
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I have been to all of those cities except Taipei, and SF stacks up nicely against all of them. In fact, I’d rate SF in the top three along with London and Paris. Beijing? Seriously?
I said i have traveled to such places and not necessarily that Beijing ranked higher. My personal top 3 would be Shanghai, NYC, and London with Hong Kong and Tokyo rounding out the Top 5.
“About the Warriors playing in an arena with glass walls…What difference would it make? Virtually every Warrior game is played entirely after the sun sets.”
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So your theory is there are no picturesque nighttime views from a pier in the vicinity of the Bay Bridge? And that there’s never going to be daylight for folks who arrive at a game at, say, 6pm?
Bartleby, well stated. I should have chosen my words more carefully.
re: Top Alpha (12 pts) are London, NYC, Paris
…Wow. I’ve been to all 3….
Bartleby, regarding night views. With the lights on in an arena there will be very few night views of the bay. It just doesn’t seem like a big selling point/payoff like it is for a baseball stadium. Can you imagine being one of the people that bought a bay view condo across the street? Yikes
I’ve been to a lot of huge cities around the world, and I don’t think it’s very smart to compare “San Francisco” to any of them. The Bay Area is the urban area you have to look at here–the entire area — some 8M people; San Francisco’s role vs. San Jose’s role vs. Oakland’s role within this area is what’s worth focusing on. imo.
LakeshoreOAK says:
“The Oakland Coliseum is cold??? Have you ever been to AT&T Park???? It’s cold AND windy. I can’t imagine why anybody is willing to sit through that for a baseball game.
I work in the Financial District, not too far from AT&T and where the proposed new Warriors arena will be. Trust me: that new arena on the Waterfront will be colder than a witch’s tit, especially during the evenings of the fall/winter NBA season. Yet, I’m sure they will still sell plenty of tickets. ”
Firstly, of course SF is also cold, the whole region (by the coast) is cold during summer (and really, most night games except a few, usually towards the end of the season.) That doesn’t change the fact Oakland is cold at night for most games.
Secondly, i’m not saying that’s at all a reason to move the team. I’m simply saying i would appreciate viewing my favorite team in every other MLB region’s weather. Hey, i love our weather overall, but for nighttime, outdoor activities, there is no comparison, it isn’t nearly as pleasant as the rest of the country during summer. We have great falls. Great daytime weather (even if then too it’s often too cold.)
If you haven’t existed in warm night summer weather, try it. It’s truly nice. We get one or two, maybe, per year, and not really the same, gets cold fairly quickly into the night.
And as to the larger point, i know i’m not attracting new fans (who care about being warm and comfy or not,) by “going here,” but all i was trying to do is keep things honest. We all know bay area baseball night games means bring layers, many usually.
And hey, if anyone reading this doesn’t get cold easy themselves, or loves wearing lot’s of clothes, more power to ya! Most of us do get cold in the kind of marine layer, to your bone cold we get during summer.
Come on, you saying Jack London is a wuss? Let’s just be honest about it, the A’s PR staff doesn’t need to be to sell tix.
And oh yeah, LakeshoreOAK, what does it matter how cold it gets at the Warriors new proposed arena? They’ll be, um, playing inside, with heat (and air conditioning which they’ll rarely have to use.)
Thread closed.