The highlight of Blog Day may have been a 25-minute discussion with Ray Fosse that spanned all manner of subjects: broadcasting, teams he played on. At one point Fosse started talking, unprovoked, about the need for a new ballpark. As a great player and broadcaster, his words carry far more weight than mine ever will. So here’s the snippet of him talking ballparks, which started as a question about comparing the current team to previous teams he played on or covered. Without further adieu:
This group of guys has a chance to be as good as (the 1989 squad), but the thing they have to do is stay together. There’s free agency and arbitration, and lots of money, the most important thing now is that the A’s somehow get a new stadium. Because as soon as a shovel is in the ground, they can keep all of these guys. Because they know what the revenue stream is going to be. Until that happens, they don’t know.
Q: Would you say you’re in favor of San Jose or in favor of a new stadium?
I’d say a new stadium, wherever it is. I don’t wanna upset people here… but unfortunately that monstrosity (points at Mt. Davis) killed us. If you can imagine when you watched games before, you could look out and see the Oakland hills, see the ivy up there.
This is the last remaining multipurpose stadium in all of baseball. Clay Wood does a great job, but he can only do so much. So to think about minimizing foul territory, which you can do when the pitchers are good enough… You can tarp the upstairs, tarp Mt. Davis, people complain – well you fill it up, and they’ll take the tarps off.
I don’t even like talking about excuses about, “Well, if we don’t leave…” Listen. To me, leaving and going to San Jose, if that’s where they go, that’s not leaving, folks. Leaving is going to another state or across the country. Staying in this area and (going to) a downtown – we’re fortunate to go to Baltimore and Cleveland in particular. Of course Boston’s downtown. Seattle. You get a downtown stadium, and what it does to revitalize a downtown area, it’s tremendous. To be honest, I’ve never been to a Sharks game but all I’ve heard are great things about downtown San Jose when the Sharks play. They support the team, it brings everyone out.
He also talked A.J. Griffin, Yoenis Cespedes, Scott Hatteberg, Chef Rodney, and more. I can’t post the audio here per the terms of the media credential (no podcasts), but these subjects and Fosse’s quotes should elicit a good amount of conversation. I’ll leave it at that.
newballpark.org 
Ray Fosse Hates Oakland
Hate is a strong term. I would say, he called bullsh*t on excuses for not filling the stadium with a team contending. But he definitely wants a downtown stadium, which means not coliseum city, maybe Howard Terminal, definitely San Jose.
@Nicosan – Pretty sure Jeffrey was being sarcastic there.
@ML Ahhh yes, my innocent eyes could not tell.
I think Jeffrey was making a joke. 🙂 It’s interesting to hear someone who is a big part of this franchise’s history, and a link to the past dynasty is saying that a move to SJ is not leaving. It’s the way that it should be thought of, one large territory. I understand Oakland pride, but the team isn’t exclusively Oakland’s. They belong to the area, and they deserve to be self-sustaining. Sometimes I get the feeling that people are upset with the replacement of Oakland in the name more than they are upset with the actual move.
always refreshing to read a logical assessment rather than the emotional bs–especially from someone who knows the game, has played it and understands what the stakes are these days in order to support a contender on a regular basis–
Sounds to me that Ray is being nothing more than a baseball pragmatist. If the emotional component is removed, it’s clear to any rational mind that relocating a team 40 miles to a large population center while simultaneously removing it from another baseball team currently in a large population center is a no-brainer. However, it’s the emotional component is the tricky part. The fact is, had Haas not made a huge blunder, all of this would have occurred ten years ago.
Nice to see a member of the A’s organization openly critical of Mt. Davis. I don’t think the A’s do nearly enough complaining or pointing out that was the beginning of the end for the Coliseum. And end brought about by the short sighted pols running Oakland.
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Fosse is also spot on about the A’s needing a new stadium in a downtown, and that SJ is not a “move”. SJ is still the Bay Area. And the A’s need a new home somewhere in the Bay Area. If it’s SJ so be it. But the A’s do need it soon if they’re going to keep this team together, which I wonder if it is one of the reasons Wolff is so adamant on a quick resolution over more delays now.
Thank you Mr. Fosse! Thank you!
I agree 100% with Ray. Look, I live in the East Bay, and while it will be harder to get to games in San Jose, I will. Moreover, I can still watch games on TV, hear local chat on the radio because it’s the BAY AREA!!!
Based upon yesterday’s articles, fear is starting to creep into me that the unthinkable ‘could’ happen. That Wolfe gets so fed up that he just decides to cash out sell to someone that has his heart set on convincing another city outside the Bay Area to build a ballpark and voila, The Oakland A’s move to Portland, Vancouver, Salt Lake City, Vegas, OKC or God knows where else. That would be a truly black day for the Bay Area. Far more grim than moving to San Jose.
If I thought that Oakland could make it happen, I would support it full-boat. But, people that seem to have perspective know this is a longshot at best.
Wolfe needs to stop thinking that just because he’s Bud’s bud, that this will happen. Thankfully, San Jose is still by far the best place to go for the financial viability of the team (vs. out of state) but listening to this guy I often wonder how he’s made such a killing in real estate!
Pure awesome.
While clearly not a concern of current ownership and MLB (and I’m not saying it should be), its refreshing to hear someone actually acknowledge the value a new facility and successful team can bring to a city in regards to “revitalizing” its downtown area. With so much focus on the bottom line of financing and selling luxury suites to the highest bidder, the benefit of reenergizing a city, both economically and socially, gets lost.
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From the perspective of MLB and all the owners, obviously that isn’t the primary concern when building a new stadium, nor should it be, but its unfortunate that most conversations about new stadiums make these topics mutually exclusive. In his quotes, Fosse highlights the value a nice stadium can bring to downtown areas like Seattle, Baltimore, etc; so if we take him at his word its exciting to think of what it could do for Oakland.
JH510, i think the two are completely related. The vital downtown feeds the ballpark and vice versa (and it is noticeable when this is done right as it was done in Denver, San Francisco, Baltimore and not as well done in Washington DC, Miami).
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The location of the park is really important. I consider it a blessing the Fremont went kerplooey. I hope Coliseum City (at least as an A’s site) does the same, and fast.
Fosse has been with Oakland for a long time. He’s been to many ballparks, multiple times. I think he has as good an idea what makes a good ballpark location and atmosphere as any. He hit the right points about what needs to happen. Moving away from Oakland sucks. But moving to San Jose is not the end of our team. The alternatives are a hell of a lot worse. I just hope that this worthless commissioner will finally broker a deal soon. This is beyond ludicrous.
@Jeffrey: I wasn’t saying they aren’t related, I was simply pointing out the aspect of “revitalizing a downtown” that Fosse highlighted in his quote is most often left on the sidelines in this debate.
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As has been pointed out on this blog many times, Lew Wolff is not at all obligated to factor in the potential benefit to Oakland when trying to build them a stadium; his focus is on the bottom line, and he sees San Jose as the answer. That being said, does that mean a new stadium wouldn’t provide a huge benefit to Oakland, especially at a site like Howard Terminal? Not at all. But as it stands now, current A’s ownership has no interest in working with Oakland, nor factoring in the potential benefits to the city, which I believe only adds to animosity from Oakland fans.
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Again, I’ll repeat, I do NOT think this should be the primary concern of any professional sports franchise ownership group, as to do so would be faulty. But it is refreshing to see someone like Fosse mention “bilding a new stadium, anywhere…” and how “tremendous it can be for revitalizing a downtown area” in the same sentence, and acknowledge the relevance of that to the A’s home city.
@ JH510 – So what does that mean in terms of the W’s? They have almost sold out all the games since Oracle Arena’s renovation, made tons of money (especially Mr. Cheapskate Cohan), but yet are entertaining leaving to nearby SF and ignoring Oakland in favor of further riches. Do you see as much contempt for their plans?
So to summerize:
Mount Davis has ruined the coliseum.
In order for the A’s to compete over the long term, they need a steady stream of revenue which means a new ballpark.
Ballparks located in urban areas are a good idea.
Folks, there are some things we can all agree on.
The continued talk of the A’s moving to Portland, San Antonio, Sacramento, etc. is baseless. All of those locations’ fanbases are 2.3 mil. or smaller. The A’s are drawing 20,000+ in the dumpy old Coliseum – it would be difficult for them to average 20,000 or more at any of the other locations. Also, the television broadcasting rights, and the corporate sponsers for those markets is economically not feasable. The A’s stand a much better chance of staying in Oakland than they do in those other locations.
Furthermore, despite what some columnists have been recently claiming – it is doubtful that the A’s are “corroding away and desperate for a quick solution”, they have been very profitable for the A’s owners. Besides, Lew Wolff said (back in June ’12) that the A’s will be in San Jose in five years. He is obviously planning on further delays.
Duffer, they have only been profitable because of revenue sharing. And being that the A’s play in one of the markets the CBA doesn’t designate as being applicable for future revenue sharing that situation won’t last forever. The A’s w/o revenue sharing are being run well into the read, even with their ridiculously favorable lease.
TK weighs in on his thoughts on the A’s TR plight:
http://www.mercurynews.com/tim-kawakami/ci_21572212/tim-kawakami-future-san-jose-could-be-revenue
However, Dan – Selig mentioned the A’s could continue receiving payments from the revenue sharing agreement while their move to SJ is being worked out.
Even though it’s only 40 miles away, we all know that route isn’t exactly quick and easy for commuters from Oakland/East Bay to traverse, and vice versa – at least not with any reliable regularity. I don’t think it’s a surprise that many of the East Bay people won’t be going to the San Jose stadium at least for a good while, but who cares? Oakland has nothing good to offer anybody and should probably be un-incorporated and razed to the ground. Their leadership is incompetent, the city is poor and the residents are ghetto. Crime is so bad, I heard a wasp stabbed a beetle in broad daylight and the cops didn’t even show up to take a statement. (Mild sarcasm)
Obviously, O.Co isn’t bad enough for the team’s performance to be adversely affected though, so the move is more about ownership making ass-wads money. They obviously don’t NEED a huge payroll to be competitive on the field. There’s nothing illegal about ownership capitalizing on their investment – but it has nothing to do with fans, necessarily. I’m sure ticket sales in SJ will be profitable if for no other reason than they’re going to charge more and sell more luxury boxes to the Yahoos and Ebays of the world. The A’s would have to convert some Giants fans, but they know that. There will plenty of IT guys down there in SJ snapping up season tix just to show they can afford the premium prices and brag to the blonde bimbo they just picked up from Gordon Biersch. (Are they really A’s fans, though? Debatable. Why don’t they come to Oakland now if they’re such A’s fans? Too far? Too ghetto? Crappy stadium? Doesn’t matter anyway – they’ll probably buy the tickets and lux boxes in SJ. However, I digress…)
I, personally, will never get used to the SJ idea. I have nothing against SJ as a city – it’s a lovely place. (This is where you guys try to convince me that SJ is the best thing for the A’s.) Sorry, guys, it ain’t gonna work. Ever. The A’s are the team I grew up watching. IN OAKLAND. I learned to love baseball by watching the OAKLAND A’s. Not the Giants, not the Yankees. I’ve spent literally years of my life in that sports complex off 880. No, I don’t want the A’s to go anywhere. But, my life-long emotional connection to this team and their apparently crappy stadium doesn’t show up on a proforma. New stadiums with shopping promenades and red wine at the concession stands in stadiums that are far from the image of places like Oakland are all the rage, and LW wants to join the Baller’s Club. By the way, the OAKLAND A’s are sometimes good at BASEBALL – VERY good – but they need to move to SJ because…? Right. The A’s simply cannot survive in Oakland for some reason even though at this very moment they are threatening to boast the best record in the AL at a fraction of the payroll of the Rangers, Angels or Giants.
I suppose if the A’s have to move, San Jose isn’t that far distance-wise. Although, admittedly, I probably won’t go to San Jose to watch games much, if at all. I surely won’t be hustling down there after work and back during the week. There is no way in hell I’m driving to SJ from O on a whim, unless it happens to be on a Friday or a weekend, and even then I probably wouldn’t make it by a 7:05 first pitch. I work down the street from AT&T and I rarely (maybe 5 times max) even go there. Of course, I’m an OAKLAND A’s fan, so…
Once (IF) the A’s move to SJ, the younger generation (under 10ish) of East Bay people will grow up not being affected by this disaster, so hopefully they’ll eventually come around to the SJ idea. By the time the stadium is built, they’ll be old enough to get to SJ on their own. Unfortunately, I actually see them becoming Giants fans before they become SJ A’s fans because the Giants are much closer and easier to get to for East Bay folks but whatever. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I’d rather be an SF Giants fan than an SJ A’s fan. That’s not meant to be offensive, it’s just honest.
So be it. I’m beyond exasperated at the mere mention of this stadium conversation. Fine. Just can’t stand being in Oakland? Move the team, already. Only don’t expect me to show up and help finance the team’s departure. I just put my season tix deposit down for next year and will only pay the balance if they stay in Oakland. As a resident and fan of Oakland, I’ve taken all the insults anyone can hurl – I don’t give a damn what you say or think. The A’s can keep my $300 if they finalize a move to SJ. Same with the W’s – I bought season tix a week before they announced Pier 32. They can keep it or I’ll be hustlin’ my tix to the rich yuppies at 4x face value just like Joe Lacob is planning on doing. It’s not about the money…for me, anyway. If they stay in Oakland, I’m excited. If they leave, not another penny and damn sure not another ounce of support. You burn me like that after 30 years of blind loyalty because you want to line your own already-fat pockets with yet more Sili Valley or SOMA money? Oakland will never play that. I, for one, don’t trade my loyalty for money. It has actually COST me thousands of dollars over the years to be a part of the A’s and Warriors, and I was happy to do it.
I think it’s awesome that the Oakland only guys ignore that Fosse endorsed San Jose.
It is equally awesome that the question he was asked was “Would you say you’re in favor of San Jose or in favor of a new stadium?”
Fosse endorsed a new stadium in an urban location. He left it open as to where in the Bay Area it should be.
@jgmj,
Yes he did leave it open! Now, add private financing of the ballpark into the mix and “urban location”s in the Bay Area gets a lot smaller (cough SAN JOSE cough!). Sorry, its the reality of the business my friend.
BTW, if I ever see Tim Kawakami in person I’m going to be seriously tempted to punch him in the face…
Duffer, and that is a finite amount of time. The A’s will not be supported indefinitely in Coliseum. And MLB has made it clear revenue sharing will end for them the moment the move into a new park, be it SJ or Oakland.
@ ML – somewhat unrelated to the topic at hand. Did Fosse share his feelings about Hatteberg? Personally, as much of a homer as Fosse is, I grew up with him and will always support him on the air!
@Anon – Fosse was very diplomatic about Hatteberg, said he didn’t know what the deal was. He ended up in the radio booth for the weekend, mostly because he felt like it.
Sure, add Wolff and Fisher as the owners and financiers and the only option is San Jose. This isn’t news. Honestly, it makes as much difference what Fosse thinks as what any of us think. We all know how each other stand on this blog. We can talk in circles all day.
@Jeffrey: just my take, but statements like yours are where my occasional frustration rises with the pro-SJ argument. Fosse was asked, point blank, about building a new stadium, and his answer was, “I’d say a new stadium, wherever it is.” Simple as that. His statements following that were obviously acknowledging that he thinks San Jose is a viable alternative to Oakland as a home for the team. Do any logical pro-Oakland fans disagree with this? Clearly not, as I’ve always said SJ is a viable home for an MLB team. But the issue isn’t that, its that currently the A’s do not have the territorial rights through MLB to do so. If they did, they’d have moved already.
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But we’ve been over that argument again and again. Rather, your reading of that as “Fosse endorsing San Jose”, i.e. him seeing the City of Oakland as a whole no longer viable for the A’s, speaks volumes.
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As jgmj correctly points out, all of this discussion revolves around nothing more than reading the tea leaves how we want to. While we all love hearing Fosse on color for the games, his opinion means little more than any of ours when it comes to getting a new stadium built.
First, I am pro anywhere in the Bay Area. Read it again… The only place he mentions building a stadium is San Jose. He dismissed the argument of leaving Oakland driing attendance down. He points out that if there had been people sitting in those seats on a regular basis, the seats wouldn’t be tarped. His comments about downtown are in the context of San Jose. How going to San Jose is not moving.
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I have been ready to support an Oakland stadium plan for 15 years. You guys are willing to make excuses for another 15.
You said “endorse.” He acknowledged that San Jose is an option, just like we all acknowledge that Obama and Romney are presidential candidates. No where did he say that he thinks the A’s should move to San Jose – in other words, an endorsement. Plus, the question directly referenced San Jose, not Oakland.
As I said before, we are just talking in circles. A’s need to rally against the Tigers to get off on the right foot on this road trip. Go A’s.
ML, a bit OT, but since we are talking ballparks and you did bring it up two months ago, El Paso just approved the lease and construction funds for their new AAA ballpark about a half hour ago. Assuming the mayor doesn’t veto the approval in the next 72 hours (as he can do if he so chooses) then the sale of the Tucson Padres to the El Paso ownership group will be complete and they’ll have baseball back in El Paso for 2014. And all of that occured in under 6 months from it first being broached as a possibility in El Paso.
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Makes one pine for the days when California hadn’t completely bogged itself down in laws, regulations, requirements, approvals and all the other happy horseshit that gums up our bloated governments.
@Dan – That’s nice for El Paso baseball fans and the new ownership group, but it’s a criminally bad deal for the City.
In other news, Phil Anschutz may be exploring a sale of AEG. That could have huge implications for the LA NFL stadium, Coliseum City, Sacramento arena (they bailed out at the end) and a slew of other projects.
TK is right on his article. MLB should compensate the Giants via revenue sharing. Right now this market is wash, they should compensate the Giants the A’s amount for 5 years (20M a year) and be done with it.
The media market is shared therefore the TV piece is not going to appease anyone. The other owners right now see the Giants putting in 40M and the A’s taking 30M….This market is a wash pretty much.
By the Giants only putting in 20M for 5 years it solves the $$ issue but the Giants state San Jose is worth far more than 100M….At some MLB has affix an amount and use revenue sharing to fix this.
Once the A’s open up in San Jose is 2016 or 2017 then both teams will contribute 30M each and now you have the wealthiest market in baseball putting in 60M and the other owners get their money back and then some…….How Selig does not see this shows how dumb he is.
Also, I disagree with TK that Selig does not have the votes, he does….But he is too much of a coward to piss the Giants off.
ML, not sure it’s nearly as bad after they quintupled the ticket surcharge being paid as well as the base rent. And they now wrote in that the base rent, ticket surcharge amount, and the parking fee will increase by 10 percent every five years throughout the life of the lease.
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As for AEG, if he does sell all I can say is that I’m floored. I thought AEG was Phil’s baby. Guess I was wrong. And it would have huge implications for many projects including Sacramento, Coliseum City, and LA (as in it would probably derail all three and potentially change the fates of teams tied to all three).
Oh good grief…
@ Lakeshore – I understand your emotional attachment to your city, but realize that many of A’s fans from SJ have been making the trek up to Oakland for decades now. That and your city already got played by Al Davis after giving you guys the middle finger…. /shakes head
Fosse wants his (full) job back from Hatteberg. He should just be quiet about stadiums and talk about catchers.
I get it….attack the person, not the issue! /thumbsdown
ML, looks like it’s not just possible. Phil is putting AEG along with all its assets up for sale as of late this afternoon. Here’s hoping it puts a big crimp in the LA stadium plans. Not just for the Raiders sake, but for Chargers and Rams fans sake as well.
http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-anschutz-aeg-sale-20120918,0,754304.story
@Dan – Wow.
I love how quickly it goes from Lew Wolff is Rachel Phelps and won’t spend his own money to field a competitive team to Lew Wolff doesn’t need to spend anymore to have a competitive team.
@Sid,
Your last sentence is on point. Wolff does have the votes: hence him wanting a vote in the Spring. Much like the Expos to DC saga, Selig/MLB don’t want a pissed off ownership group in the ranks, so they denied the vote and have vowed to work this thing out diplomatically. Alas, with both sides ordered to stay silent on the issue, a SOLOMONESQUE deal by Selig/MLB is now on the horizon…
@TonyD
How many times has Wolff said he wants any answer now, yes or no? It’s just as likely he wasn’t sure he had the votes, but said eff it let’s end this once and for all.
Split the baby… I still don’t get the reference. Are the A’s or Giants San Jose’s true mother?
I hear yah GJ10,
However, just my opinion of course, it has always appeared to me that Wolff isn’t be genuine with his “outrage” and “frustration” when he talks to the media about this whole issue; i.e. wanting an answer “now,” not knowing how the commissioner will rule, etc. I stand by my opinion that Wolff KNOWS the answer and exactly how this thing will end (hence him not appearing stressed one bit in the media). Again, just my opinion.
Serious question regarding Selig et al. With the news that Selig may push for a “solution” that involves at least another year, Wolff’s original comments about that being like a “no”, and the rumors last month about MLB possibly pushing for an Oakland solution, is it possible that Selig’s yearlong “solution” is designed to end the A’s quest for San Jose?
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Here’s why I ask: The threat of lawsuits from the City of San Jose and possibly the A’s in some form would surely put pause to MLB saying no to the A’s. If MLB tells the A’s straight-up that they aren’t letting them move, that could push SJ and/or the A’s to fire up their legal teams. Letting the A’s wither on the vine has, thus far, not enacted a strong legal response. If Selig wanted Wolff & Co. to abandon the SJ idea while not bringing on a full legal attack, wouldn’t the best way to accomplish that be to continue to “ignore” the situation, letting the A’s wither?
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I am by no means saying this is the “best” option or the most ethical and transparent move by MLB, but it might just fit in with Selig’s odd and mysterious method of operation.
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As a side note, when this is all said and done, I look forward to reading a Michael Lewis book on the entire saga. Just imagine each “camp” and what they are thinking/planning/scheming at any given point: A’s, MLB, Selig, other owners, Giants, City of Oakland, City of SJ, Coliseum Authority, Blue Ribbon Committee, corporate titans, etc.
@Jeffrey – The city that’s trying to hold onto the baby even though that means death for the tyke is the fake mom, per the original text.
MLB possibly pushing for an Oakland solution? Where did that come from? Another year of “study” just to end the A’s San Jose quest? Oh boy! Who got a follow up visit from the MLB committee again…
(Good night all!)
I’d like to apologize in advance for asking what is probably a previously discussed and thus now asinine questions: Suppose for a moment that the Raiders decide to move out of the Coliseum and play elsewhere (Santa Clara, Los Angeles, Timbuktu, wherever). Other than finding a temporary place for the A’s to play their home games, what are the problems in totally renovating the Coliseum to a baseball only stadium? What would need to be added/removed/improved to make the Coliseum a place that the casual fan would want to go to and attract free agents? What would be the approximate cost to make all of the desired improvements? Is there anyway to make the Coliseum an acceptable MLB park without all of the “bell and whistles” to keep the cost down (you may define the meaning of “bells and whistles)? About how long would it take for the renovations to be completed. Again, I apologize to all of you if this has been discussed ad nauseum. My knowledge of large scale remodeling is practically zero, so I appreciate your patience with me (I studied music in college, not construction engineering)! If there is a site elsewhere that answers all of my question, I’d appreciate it. Thanks to all who answer!
Most people really do not know what is happening (Quan, Davis, Goodell, Selig, Wolff , and perhaps most importantly, the Giantsdo). There are basically three things everyone agrees on. 1: The A’s & Raiders will not be sharing a Stadium 5 years from now. 2: Oakland cannot afford to build two Stadiums. 3: The Raiders are Oakland’s priority. What does it mean? If The Raiders agree to stay at a renovated Coliseum, the A’s will be gone, and the Giants know it. If they hold out over San Jose, they stand an excellent chance of not only keeping the San Jose market, but actually gaining the Oakland Market as well (The hard core A’s fans? No, but the casual Oakland baseball fan becomes available, as do TV Rights (If the Padres can get $40m, how much can the Giants get?)). Is it right? Maybe not, but it is what it is. You can come up with all kinds if scenarios, but the idea of monopolizing the Bay Area baseball market is just too good for the Giants to resist, so they will simply wait to see what happens with the Raiders and Quan.
Agree David Brown
That is why if San Jose does not work and only if it doesnt.. plz Wolff and Quan.. can you two kiss and make up and build a ballpark at Howard Terminal or next to a renovated football-only Raider coliseum. I feel the city and county can come up with a littl bit of public funding to help the Raiders and A’s out nothing to major 50 mil or something.. but anyway im just saying im ballpark first, it will be great if Mark Davis just decides to stay (lets face it, nobody going to build a losing Raider team a new stadium, only a winning Raider team) and waits a few years till the Raiders turn the corner then yeah i could see work being done on a new stadium and Oracle Arena should be kept update just incase another NBA team could be looking to relocate (bucks, kings, timberwolves)
Matt–> https://newballpark.org/2006/10/19/deconstructing-the-coliseum-part-i-the-bowl-shape/ and https://newballpark.org/2006/10/22/deconstructing-the-coliseum-part-ii-stadium-height/ address the coliseum as a redone venue (I think they answer your questions)
@Matt – others here are much more in the know than I am, but converting the Coliseum to a more ‘traditional” baseball-only configuratiion begins and ends with one thing: Knock Down Mount Davis. That, in itself, probably renders the conversion cost-prohibitive in comparison to building anew.
But let’s say it’s done, then what? Well, I’d suggest lowering the field and closing in some of the abundant foul territory – this may or may not be feasible depending on the local water table. After that, it’s just infrastructure remodeling and improvements, similar to what was done in the non-new parts of Cal’s Memorial Stadium. A bit pricey, perhaps, but doable.
re: 3: The Raiders are Oakland’s priority.
…says something when the team that brings the people into town to spend money 10 days a year is given top billing over the team that brings people into town to spend money 81 times a year. A downtown Oakland ballpark would have been a huge boost, but it’s probably too late for it to happen, now. Not when all the city has is a site impeded by a major railroad crossing and no money to spend. I hope David Brown’s grim assessment of this whole situation is inaccurate. But something tells me he’s right on the money.
I remember them running into water table problems when they proposed lowering the field as part of their 1990 attempt to lure back the Raiders.
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I don’t think lowering the field is going to work for baseball anyway, though. Have you ever sat in the first few rows of 116-118? And how you have to look through people’s heads to see home plate? Well, lowering the field would make that even worse. You could shift the whole field out towards center field, but that would create more foul territory down the lines to fill and would screw up the seats by the foul poles (I’m assuming that new bleachers would need to be built anyway).
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I think the best case scenario for a renovation would be to:
1. Tear down Mount Davis.
2. Rebuild the lower deck seating area from 105-114 and 120-129 with seats that angle toward the foul lines (so it would look like Shea Stadium without the upper deck). There’s no way to improve the seats in the 2nd and 3rd deck equivalents to those without basically rebuilding the stadium.
3. Make the concourses look less crappy (unfortunately, they may not be able to build out because of the way the back wall is a part of the stadium structure).
@slo_town: like a lot of us are doing, that’s more reading of the tea leaves, but I think that may be a logical reading of the situation. With MLB’s long-stated desire to see new stadiums in downtown waterfront locations, combined with their obvious hesitancy to change territorial rights, this may be the hand Selig is playing. Obviously the task then falls to the City of Oakland to push a detailed plan for Howard Terminal, backed by corporate support and a potential new ownership group. Its still a longshot, but as more time goes by we’re left with nothing but longshots, and with more time the needle seems to move away from current owners and SJ towards new owners and a new downtown Oakland ballpark.
And in case anyone missed it, a nice shout out in Peter King’s national weekly column (see item 10(f)), to all of us who brave it out at the Coliseum… http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/09/16/week-2/4.html.
re: towards new owners and a new downtown Oakland ballpark.
…all that is well and good – if we had somebody willing to buy the team and build in Oakland. Instead of just anonymous groups who might want to take a look at it, under no obligation.
@Jeffrey – Oakland-only guy here. Please point out where Fosse endorsed SJ. Not liking Mt. Davis isn’t the same as endorsing SJ.
I think it’s awesome the SJ-only guys read the tea leaves their way every time.
First, I am not an SJ Only guy. I am open to any workable plan in the Bay Area.
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Endorse- Declare one’s public approval or support of.
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When someone says “Going to San Jose is not moving. I hear great things about Downtown San Jose, etc.” after saying “I am not trying to get anyone upset” I take that as an endorsement. That doesn’t mean that he prefers San Jose exclusively, it means that he approves of the move. Which is an endorsement.
@Jeffrey – ‘fraid not. It just means he likes San Jose. You have interpreted that as an endorsement of moving the team to SJ. Clearly by his statement, “I’d say a new stadium, wherever it is. I don’t wanna upset people here…” he is in fact trying to avoid making an outright endorsement of either town so he doesn’t put himself in the hotseat with any fans. PR 101.
I could read, “…unfortunately that monstrosity (points at Mt. Davis) killed us. If you can imagine when you watched games before, you could look out and see the Oakland hills, see the ivy up there” as an endorsement of Oakland if we could somehow remove Mt. Davis, but that ain’t exactly what he’s saying, either.
@the SJ only guys (not Jeffrey) – QUESTION: what would happen if the A’s, for whatever reason, stayed in Oakland? Would you continue not to show up at O.Co just because….it’s in Oakland? Oakland is too far? Oaklad is too ghetto? The stadium designs displeases you? Or would you actually start coming to Oakland? Do you already come to Oakland to watch the games?
@ Lakeshore – Ithis is a very strange question. Why wouldn’t we continue to show up? I’ve been to about 10+ games this year (i lost count). How many have you gone to? Why would you abandon them for moving 40 miles down the freeway? Just because of your ego and pride? BTW> I’m no SJ only! I am in the GET_THE_FNING_STADIUM_ANYWHERE_IN_THE_BAY_AREA_DONE_NOW camp.
@Jeffrey: thanks for clarifying your take. We all know that the definition of endorse is, and in this case many of us read your “Its awesome…” statement as taking endorse to mean choosing one over the other, such as when a public figure or politician endorses a political candidate. I can’t remember the last time a political candidate “endorsed” someone as a way of saying they approve of them but equally prefers the other candidate.
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But that’s semantics. Perhaps your previous comment should have just read “Its awesome that the Oakland only guys ignore that Fosse “approves of a move to” San Jose”?
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But obviously that would have not made sense, because none of us read his quotes and thought that.
re: QUESTION: what would happen if the A’s, for whatever reason, stayed in Oakland?
…that would be fabulous. I already go to Oakland for games. Business as usual. Yawn.
But here are the facts:
* Oakland will not contribute any money toward construction of the ballpark.
* We have owners ready and willing to construct a ballpark in San Jose.
* The current owners have said they have exhausted all options in Oakland.
* MLB”s so-called blue ribbon committee has been investigating ballpark options in the A’s current territory since March 2009 and has publicly reported nothing. Wolff has said the committee has not found anything to contradict him.
* No one has come forward willing to construct a ballpark in Oakland.
…Please tell me why anybody should feel optimistic about Oakland’s chances given these realities?
pjk – your pessism at anything positive for Oakland has been well-documented. Although this side childish temper tantrum side I have not seen in a while.
However, your ability to dodge every single question I asked, while answering self-serving questions that you asked yourself instead, is downright Republican. Impressive, sir. (Or ma’am. Hard to tell from your screenname)
Salt Lake City A’s. There needs to be an AL TEAM in the MT Zone to have each league have 1 team in all 4 time zones!!!! The Utah A’s!!
What we do know about fosse quote is that he is tired of folks whining about the tarps- fill up the ballpark and they will take them off- some views attendance in Oakland as a concern
He doesn’t view a move to SJ as “leaving” the area and when talking about downtown ballparks he indicates that he has heard great things about downtown SJ and the Sharks impact on downtown SJ-
Still looking for his specific references to downtown Oakland- bottom line–it is a safe assumption that he endorses SJ as a location for the new ballpark-
Anon: We’re just not going to reach people who equate a move from Oakland to San Jose to a move from Oakland to San Antonio. Wasting our time.
@Anon – Good question.
I actually dropped down to a ticket package this year. Had season tix before that. Just put money down on my season tix for next year. Honestly, I think I’ve been to about 10 games this year, way down from other years I’ve had season tix. In an average year before this disaster, I was there sporadically throughout the spring but attended more frequently into October. Feel good, now?
Yeah, my ego is huge. But the reality is I’m not going to drive to SJ on a Tuesday night very oftern after I get home from work in the Financial District. Would you? And why don’t many of those SJ peole make the reverse drive now? Attendance sucked before the All-Stars. Where were the SJ fans? Apparently there are lots of them and they don’t think driving 40 miles is too far to watch a baseball game. Dont just blame Oakland residents for not wanting to drive that stretch. It’s a shitty drive.
@pjk – your pessimism is well documented. Your ability to dodge questions is downright and answer them in your own spin is downright Republican. You ever think about running for office?
@ Lakeshore – your answers get more perplexing by the minute. First, I do drive through horrendous 237 / 880N traffic to the Coliseum all the time (I usually go about 3 hours early, but sometimes that doesn’t even help). Second, how do you know that many SJ people don’t drive up there? Everytime I go, i have at least 4-5 people come with me. Last of all, why are you blaming SJ fans for bad attendance when the team is in OAKLAND? If the team is in SJ, I would not blame poor attendance on Oakland residents. It would be on SJ itself. Continuing to deflect responsibility and blaming others is what got us into this mess (Oakland stadium) in the first place. I would whole heartedly support a realistic proposal, but there hasn’t been one to even be excited about that isn’t much more than political fluff.
GoA’s – An assumption it is. We all know what assumptions are like.
As has been said, the question he responded to directly referenced San Jose, not Oakland.
“We’re just not going to reach people who equate a move from Oakland to San Jose to a move from Oakland to San Antonio. Wasting our time.”
LMFAAAAAAAAO That is a line right out of the Romney script. Screw the 47%. Give up on em
hahahahahahahahahah
BS on SJ and the A’s today :
http://www.mercurynews.com/oakland-as-move/ci_21583972/selig-committee-working-hard-giants-san-jose-territorial
working very hard ? LOL
Lakeshore… why do you continue to pretend you know other people’s motivations? I have asked you this several times but you never answer. You have giant chip on your shoulder about why people don’t go to games in Oakland. Most folks on here, do go to games in Oakland… Your criticisms of them are completely mot as a result.
Also, you clearly don’t understand what endorse means. It is the opposite of “oppose.” Would you say he “opposed” San Jose based on this statement? Neither would I. In fact, his only discussion about where a stadium can be built is all in the context of San Jose.
The world’s an awesome place when you accept that nuance exists and everything isn’t cut and dry.
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JH510, it’s pretty clear what Ray Fosse is saying in that quote. In fact, I agree 100% with what he is saying. Mt. Davis sucks and it ruined the Coliseum for baseball. The A’s need a new stadium with stuff to do around it before and after the game. It’s perfectly acceptable for that stadium to be in San Jose.
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I WAS poking a little fun at the Oakland Only folks I know. In the past, they have demonized anyone who even utters the thought that San Jose is a possibility. But the same guys praise Ray Fosse (I am not his biggest fan, I find his commentary pretty subpar compared to many other color analysts. I am a baseball nerd, I listen to as many games as I can, even if only for an inning). Recently, I was involved in a little twitter back and forth about Ray Fosse and his perceived awesomeness. The folks I was tweeting with are folks who routinely get pissed off at the thought that San Jose isn’t some backwater suburb that should never be considered a potential home for a Major League franchise. They were unanimous in their take that Ray Fosse is the best…
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A similar situation occurred when tony La Russa came out and did endorse San Jose in the way that you thought I meant above. A lot of folks who are Oakland Only guys were caught off guard when TLR, a guy they figured agreed with them, said SJ was the place to build a new stadium.
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So to summarize, I am in favor of a new baseball stadium for the Oakland A’s anywhere in the Bay Area. I think, based on economics and what MLB controls, the most likely path is San Jose. If it isn’t San Jose, I think Oakland has to find a better spot than any that have been proposed for a realistic stadium proposal to fly.
@what’s your point- his answer was obviously much broader than the question- he had no problem referencing the impact of mt. Davis- he had no problem indicating that attendance is a problem in Oakland- hence the comment to quit whining about the tarps- bttm line he has no problem with a move to SJ- any reasonable individual would have that take away- not just pro-SJ folks-
Lakeshore: So would you abandon the team if they moved 35 miles south?
Paul, SLC cannot support a Major League franchise. There are more important things than Time Zones at play here…
Huge chip. Most of the logic I hear is fairly spurrious.
(BTW, I wll say, hands down, the most impartial comments come from ML himself and the reports he posts.)
OK, so move the team to SJ then. Presto. The answer is obvious. What could be the hold up?
Wait. The A’s can’t just pick up and move to SJ or they definitely would have by now. So, since it isn’t as cut and dry as all of you and LaRussa want it to be, it must not be that simple.
Surprise! Turns out that the Oakland location isn’t terrible enough for Selig to have made a choice to move the A’s 3 years ago. If Oakland was hurting the A’s that badly, he would have bent the Giants over and told them to take it for the good of baseball.
You nailed it – “he has no problem with a move to SJ” – that’s what we have been saying all along. He did not endorse the move the way Trump endorsed Romney. . . And now this ridiculous argument can end.
@Jeffrey: thanks for your response, it helps clarify your statements.
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So just to summarize, if nothing else, it sounds like we can agree that the A’s need a new stadium built, and ideally it will be located in a downtown urban area with things to do around it. Fair enough?
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I won’t dive back into the debate about whether Ray Fosse prefers San Jose over Oakland, or Tony La Russa, or whomever. In this instance, Fosse was asked a question about San Jose and he answered a question about San Jose, done and done. If TLR or anyone else has their views on the stadium situation, more power to them. That won’t impact my take.
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I guess the only point we genuinely disagree on is whether Oakland has identified a site at which they can locate a stadium. I’m looking forward to the City of Oakland moving ahead on previous studies in order to provide a more detailed stadium plan for Howard Terminal and its increasing local support from the Port and other partners, and the growing momentum for having a new stadium in downtown Oakland.
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With that, I’m going to shift my energy back to rooting on the A’s in Detroit tonight! See you all at the Coliseum for the playoffs!
pjk – No, I won’t go to SJ but that’s mostly because it will be damned near impossible to get there for me.
I would have been more likely to go to Fremont because at least there’s a BART station there for me. Yeah, I still would have been pissed about the move but I might have gone after a couple of years. Keyword: MIGHT. Almost no chance of me getting to SJ. It’s too hard to get to. That’s honest, and I can still admit I would hate the FUCK out of having to go to SJ to watch the A’s. I don’t go there much now because it’s too much of a pain in the ass.
Moving the team to SJ effectively takes them out of the East Bay. There will be no cross-culturalization, to the utter delight of LW and most of the SJ fans.
@LakeshoreOAK, : I’m not a SJ only guy. I live in Mountain View and without a doubt SJ would be more convenient for me. But in all the years I’ve been following the A’s the distance hasn’t prevented me from attending games and never will. For example, Friday it took me an our and a half to get to Fremont Bart from my place, yet I braved the traffic to see my A’s. At the end of the day, what I want is for the A’s to be competitive being that it’s in Oakland or San Jose. From what I have read up to this point, Oakland is finally trying to get in the game. They still haven’t laid out any financing details or if they expect ownership to pay for everything (which MLB would not allow). But at least they are saying something. San Jose seems really hungry to have MLB in their town and I like what I am hearing from them.
Now the difference between me and an Oakland only fan is that I will drive to Oakland, or to San Jose, where as the Oakland only fans would rather pout and lay on their pillows like a love scorned school girl. Fosse who I am not the biggest fan of said it best when he said that the A’s moving to San Jose isn’t really moving. (something to that extent). That’s my take on it.
pjk – No, I won’t go to SJ but that’s mostly because it will be damned near impossible to get there for me.
…All you’d have to do is get on 880 or get one of those Ace trains. And in 15 years when we’re all old men, we’ll have BART to San Jose…
Makan Singh: From Mountain View, take the Dumbarton Bridge and keep going right to the Union City, not Fremont, BART station. Need to touch 880. It’ll even save you about 40 cents.
Correction: NO need touch 880
@pjk The problem is I’m screwed if I head north 101 to get to Dumbarton Bridge at that time. I live right next to the 237. Plus that stretch of 84 getting to Union City Bart is harsh as well. Either way though, I still won’t stop going to A’s games unlike the Oakland only folks who’d have less traffic coming down this way.
Thanks for the driving suggestion though. Much appreciated.
Have you tried to drive anywhere in the Bay Area during rush hour? You’re out of your mind. Take 880 or the 101 South at 6PM? 81 times a year? A person would sit through that maybe 5 times max in a single-season.
BTW, I love how the W’s are like, “Oh yeah, it’ll be easy for our East Bay fans to come over and catch a game on the Embardcaero during rush hour.” DEE-lusional.
@LakeshoreOAK- “Yeah, my ego is huge. But the reality is I’m not going to drive to SJ on a Tuesday night very oftern after I get home from work in the Financial District. Would you? And why don’t many of those SJ peole make the reverse drive now? Attendance sucked before the All-Stars. Where were the SJ fans?”
For the record, I’ve gone to about 15 games this year give or take a game. The attendance has been announced at 12k- 20k. I talk to all folks because I’m a chatty Kathy and love getting to know people. And to tell you the truth I’ve run into lots of South Bay (SJ) and Peninsula fans of the A’s there. The bigger question would be where are the Oakland fans that support the A’s so much? If say 5k of the 15k that go to the games are South Bay or Penninsula A’s fans, that’s a good amount of people. The East Bay and Oakland have lots of people that live there. Wouldn’t they go to the games if they loved the A’s and were die hard fans? I don’t want to hear that they are boycotting Wolf because that’s a cop out. If you want to be heard you show up and show Wolf that Oakland fans want the A’s. The other way just proves him right. Now where are these Oakland fans?
re: Have you tried to drive anywhere in the Bay Area during rush hour?
…I regularly head up 880 to A’s games at about 5:30 pm. A pain but doable for a fan who really wants to go to the games.
@LakeshoreOAK- I’m very familiar with how rough traffic is. My ex-GF lives in Union City and she’d come out my way because traffic was easier South bound that it was North bound. But you’re right, traffic overall sucks.
“Moving the team to SJ effectively takes them out of the East Bay. There will be no cross-culturalization, to the utter delight of LW and most of the SJ fans.”
Lakeshore, Can you tell me what you mean by this?
“what I want is for the A’s to be competitive being that it’s in Oakland or San Jose”
They are competitive right now, in scrappy Oakland, with a tiny payroll. This is the A’s brand. Moving to SJ has nothing to do with being competitive. It’s about LW capitalizing on his investment, which as I said before, isn’t illegal.
@pjk – I work in the FD, dude. Very long hours sometimes. I can pay for your season tix and mine for the next 5 years. It ain’t about the money. Stop telling me I’m not a fan because I’m not going to sit in traffic for 3 hours (there and back) after working an 11 hour day in Sf.
Makhan – if the owner says, “There is no chance of staying in Oakland”, how would expect the Oakland fans to react? Sure, let me stand in line to pay that asshole for his product so he can take my money and move to SJ. Are you crazy?
@LakeshoreOAK- Hope you’re not taking any of this as an attack on you. Just throwing out my side of things.
@Anon – when I see an empty stadium (as many of you in here complain about), I assume nobody has gone. Not Oakland, not SJ. Sure, there are fans from SJ, but right now, NOBODY is going.
But isn’t this the O-A-K-L-A-N-D A’s? Shouldn’t the burden of the responsibility for this lack of attendance be primarily on the ones with the team? If you want to blame SJ/Fremont/Milpitas/Santa Cruz/etc., then we should call the team the Golden State A’s! “X
@LakeshoreOAK- Competitive as in payroll. From the sounds of things you’d like for them to only spend 55 million a year and share a stadium. I want the A’s to have the option to develope young talent and draw free agents. We can only do 50% of that at this moment. And actually, some of the young talent came from other organizations.
“doable for a fan who really wants to go to games’
Seriously? I must have all the time in the world for the A’s or I’m not a fan? Are you in college?
@LakeshoreOAK- The alternative is to prove him right and have fans not be there. Which is what Oakland is doing. Again, I don’t mind going to Oakland for games. But showing him that Oakland is a draw is what I would feel would prove him wrong. Just my two cents on that.
@Makhan – pfffft! Please. I’m from Oakland. I fend off some kind of attack every single day. Whether it’s the bullets I dodge on my way home (joking) or the comments I get from the world at large, there is always something to defend about Oakland. That defines us. It builds that “fireman” attitude. We don’t run from burning buildings – we run in. Everybody in Oakland is all in for the Town. We ain’t scurred.
hahaha but thanks for your concern.
@Anon – so I’m right. There will be no cross-culturalization of the A’s. When they’re in Oakland, they belong to Oakland and their residents, including all of the negative press.
When they move to SJ, they will belong to SJ, including what will be the vacancy of East Bay fans.
That’s what Im talkin about. You just described it in another way. LW is trying to move the team away. Oakland and SJ dont connect culturally whatsoever. Might as well be a different state.
@ Lakeshore – Dude, you really like to cherry pick shit out of thin air just support your case? Start manning up and having the balls to take some responsibility. The Oakland A’s are an primarily an East Bay team that draws from the Bay Area. If/when they move to San Jose, it will be on that city and its citizens to take up the flag and continue on the A’s tradition. There will be EB fans no doubt, but do I expect the concentration of fans to be from there. Nope. To think otherwise is fooling yourself.
@Mak – sorry. That ain’t gonna work. Oakland doesn’t work that way. If LW built the stadium right where it is and charged 4X for tix, he’d have had no problem selling tix. But when you go out of your way to deliberately insult Oakland the way he did, there is a price to pay. Call it foolish on Oakland’s part, but I could have told him Oakland/East Bay was never going to go for that shit. It’s about principle. I knew it as soon as he said it. “This situation is fucked” i told myself.
@ Lakeshore – Al Davis says hello and wants his vaseline back. :X From your viewpoint then, there is no turning back. The divorce is finalized then, so I guess it’s SJ or Timbuktu from now on….
So… If I live in the East Bay (I do), and I will be going to games no matter where the stadium may be (assuming it is in the Bay Area, I will)… Does that count as cross culturalization? WTF does that even mean?
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JH510, my concern with current “open” Oakland sites are that Coliseum City is a no go from the “urban” angle. It’s also a massive development that won’t be starting for 7-10 years either way and that’s too long. Howard Terminal has been studied and in 2001 dollars a stadium at the site would run $517M. In today’s dollars that is $619M in 2015 dollars.
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Obviously, that study was based on a generic 42,000 seat stadium and there would be some differences (like any stadium built today would probably be around 37,000)… But really… it’s gonna be somewhere in between $517 to $619M to build a stadium at the site. That’s a lot of scratch.
@Anon – Cherrypick? Al Davis’ vaseline isn’t cherrypicking? SILENCE you fool!!! Leave my chambers at once!
So you consider the debacle of the Raiders coming back as just a footnote in the history of Oakland and its its sports I guess? A decision that is (still) costing taxpayers millions , destroyed the Coliseum, and the future A’s with them …./rolleyes
Yes there is support for a team in SLC. they already have support in the Utah Jazz, why not bring the Utah A’s. In addition the Bees, the Halos AAA affiliate moves to Boise, ID!! If San Jose fails, Utah is the best choice for the A’s so they can be located in the MT Zone since the current MT Zone Teams are both in the NL.
@Mak – sorry. That ain’t gonna work. Oakland doesn’t work that way. If LW built the stadium right where it is and charged 4X for tix, he’d have had no problem selling tix. But when you go out of your way to deliberately insult Oakland the way he did, there is a price to pay. Call it foolish on Oakland’s part, but I could have told him Oakland/East Bay was never going to go for that shit. It’s about principle. I knew it as soon as he said it. “This situation is fucked” i told myself.
@LakeshoreOAK- So you’re saying if he built the stadium in it’s current location it would draw? I could see it if you said downtown/JLS but it’s current location is part of the problem. Plus again you’re asking Fischer and company (Fischer is the majority owner) to use their own money. Since you work in the Financial district, what works out better? Building a stadium out of your own pocket or getting a lot of financial support from a bunch of big shot companies in Sillicon Valley? I figure your experience in the financial district would be able to give an unbiased answer.
Also, would you mind clarifying your cross culturazation comment?
@Paul- Make it happen.
Paul, you clearly don’t get what it takes to financially support a MLB franchise.
@Anon – but the fans still go to Raider games, don’t they? Besides, WTF does Al Davis have to do with any of this? I am not taking your bait. Go needle someone else.
/facepalm…A+B = C bro….
You noted that LW dissed Oakland and Oaklanders don’t play dat and wouldn’t attend in large numbers even if he built a new stadium there. Then I noted that the Raiders (aka Al Davis) left Oakland and yet still returned to open arms by Oakland. Now you’re saying, that regardless of how the Raiders played Oakland out of millions (PSL anyone), destroyed the Coliseum, and forcing the A’s to entertain moving, Oaklanders are cool with it and still attend games. WTF?
Build a stadium in the same place and charge 4x and they will show up! That is one awesome line of bullshit…
@Jeffrey – and your basis for this assertion is…what? Astonish me. I can handle it. I just finished reading three commercial appraisals today. If you manage to use ONE commercial appraisal term in a manner that makes sense, I will email you a coupon for a Specialty’s cookie.
@Anon – Don’t take my word for it. You can try to impress the people on this thread by taking shitty Raiders jabs and arguing with me all you want, but go turn your TV on this Sunday. You will see 1,000x more people at the Raider game than you will at an A’s game DESPITE Al Davis leaving and coming back. He was smarter than LW in this sense, enough not to stick a finger in Oakland’s eye on his way out. So that when he returned to Oakland’s open arms, they didn’t care about Mt. Davis, or the crappy Coliseum. They just wanted the team back and were willing to do anything to get them. I’ll give you 5 points for suggesting Mt. Davis might be a factor in the A’s choice. But me, as a fan, never thought Mt. Davis was the final solution. At the time, I just saw it as a “trick” to appease Davis. He wanted X number of seats and he wanted them now – it was easy to just stick em on top in the interim. I never assumed that would be the way to go for the next 40 years. It’s fairly hideous.
@ Lakeshore – “They just wanted the team back and were willing to do anything to get them.” – Principles, schminciples eh? :X
BTW – Go Niners! 🙂
Peter King joins Poole, Cohn, Dickey Tittle, Ratto and Newhouse:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/09/16/week-2/index.html#ixzz26qD19CV5
David, that’s a repost. The difference between King and those other guys? Kings opinion makes sense, he’s right to say those guys in the outfield won’t be at a new stadium of its in Santa Clara County. They say so themselves.
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Lakeshore, what does using commercial appraisal terms have to do with your ridiculous statement about charging 4x the ticket price for a new stadium at the same spot would be a hot ticket? What facts do you have to back up that assertion?
Let’s see- al Davis picked up and moved his franchise- returned after the city/county invested 200+M to build him luxury suites which ruined the Coli for the A’s– referred to Oakland as a depressed area when talking about why the Raiders don’t sell out- fielded one of the worst products on a continual basis- and is now looking for a new home 17 years later- Wow-lakeshore is right- he didn’t stick a finger in Oaklands eyes- he dropped them with a punch to their gut and he is still swinging to the tune of $20M a year while asking for a new Oakland to build him a new stadium- good ol Al- he was all class-
Building a stadium in an economically depressed area like the Coliseum that is not dense makes no sense. Focus on developing Oakland’s downtown, not depressing it by creating another. I’ll take Oakland civic leaders seriously when there is a stadium plan with the financial backing and political will to pass a ballot initiative. Which is to say I don’t think it likely. Thats not an indictment of A’s fans in Oakland, thats just political reality in an urban California environment with economic struggles. Oakland made it’s bed by dealing with the Raiders and they have to sleep in it.
Ray’s point is pretty clear, he will take a stadium anywhere downtown, but from the language he thinks San Jose is a fresher, more feasible option.
@david http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A
Ray knows the A’s ownership is vying for San Jose. He was asked specifically about San Jose. He thinks San Jose would work, but specifically mentioned a ballpark anywhere in the Bay Area is needed. I don’t see why that should ruffle feathers on either side. It’s a predictable and political answer.
^^^bingo^^^ no “endorsement” of san jose was made. chill out.
Jesus fucking Christ, people. He endorsed the move to SJ. Get over it. You can do that without dismissing an Oakland stadium.
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In a way, I’m not surprised by the reaction. Oakland-Only people must feel butthurt by Fosse’s response.
“Endorsed” as I described above means he stated public approval. Which he did. He certainly did’t oppose it… By the way, TLR, Joe Rudi and Sal Bando have all publicly stated approval of a move to San Jose, as well.
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How’s Howard Terminal coming?
Welcome to Day 2 of “Let’s Argue Over What Fosse Said”
Fosse’s comments are consistent with everyone elses who are pro-Athletics. Put in anywhere in the Bay, and yes, that includes San Jose.
I haven’t seen many comments throughout the years reading this blog which states that if it’s not San Jose, I refuse to go to any games. There may be many who are perceived to be pro-San Jose, but isn’t that because San Jose has done a helluva lot more than Oakland to court them? San Jose, if given clearance today, is five years away. Could you say the same about Oakland?
If anything, the Oakland pols seem to have been working to push the A’s away (IDLF’s comments years back about the flexibility to put events in the Coliseum if the A’s left stands out).
To have people pick out the word “endorse” as the flashpoint misses the point so badly it’s surreal. He, like many of us, said he will go to a new ballpark anywhere in the Bay Area to support the green and gold. The same can’t be said about the hard-line pro-Oaklanders.
Wow. Some of these comments are ridiculous. It’s okay for Fosse to have his own opinion, that doesn’t somehow make everyone else’s invalid. The ghost of Walter Haas could say he wants a stadium in Nicaragua and, while I’d disagree, it wouldn’t invalidate my opinion and I’d still be a fan of his. Besides, since when is Fosse a staunch Oakland poster boy? I personally don’t see this as some sort of Judas moment.. The SJ folks essentially screaming “How about them apples?” or trying to goad a response are just coming across as petty.
I haven’t been reading this comments thread much just to see how the responses would pile up. Here’s what I observed:
1. Fosse gives a nuanced, thoughtful, pragmatic opinion.
2. Some discussion of how a downtown ballpark could benefit Oakland.
3. jgmj writes something diplomatic about Fosse opinion, only to dismiss it several comments later.
4. Jeffrey throws fuel on the fire by bringing in the “San Jose as best economic option” point.
5. LakeshoreOAK makes it all about Oakland being under attack.
6. Thread devolves into pointless semantic argument about “endorsing” San Jose and defending Oakland’s honor.
You know guys, it wouldn’t hurt to think before commenting. Ask yourself, Have we gone down this road before? Am I contributing anything new? I’m not going to stop you from venting as long as it doesn’t cross the line. At some point it needs to rise above the usual going nowhere debates. Or maybe it doesn’t.
My bad…
As always, Marine Layer knows best . . . .
The vast majority of the comments made on this site are about nothing new. If we didn’t rehash the same arguments day after day, there wouldn’t be much to talk about. Sure it gets real old, but at least it is entertaining for some of us.