In case the Mark Davis feels like moving the Raiders to San Antonio, there’s already branding in place. The NFL even owns it.
The World League of American Football launched in the early 90’s, a half-hearted attempt to grow American football in Europe and shore up former USFL markets. Operating the league became a drain, and after shrinking to become a entirely European affair (NFL Europe), the league shut down after the 2007 season. Yet there are still reminders of the San Antonio RIDERS, only one letter removed from RAIDERS. The color scheme is 80’s-90’s awful, so it would be best if the Raiders stuck with the historical scheme, similar to the NBA Spurs.
Around the time Alameda County was approving the A’s lease, a report came out of the San Antonio Express News indicating that Mark Davis met with officials in SA over the weekend. Reached for comment, Davis said the following:
“Former San Antonio mayor Henry Cisneros is a friend and Henry suggested I take the opportunity to meet with some city officials while I was in town. I have nothing further to discuss on the topic.”
After his mayoral stint, Cisneros went to become HUD Secretary during the Clinton administration, then was taken down by a mistress scandal. Davis also met with current mayor Julian Castro, City Manager Sheryl Sculley, San Antonio Spurs owner Peter Holt, former Minnesota Vikings owner Red McCombs, and representatives from the San Antonio Chamber of Commerce. Together they toured the Alamodome and talked about San Antonio as a market.
The Houston Chronicle noted that Cisneros’s son-in-law is Brad Badger, a former Raiders and Stanford offensive lineman who now works in team’s corporate sales department. Sculley made her own statement:
“I was asked to meet two weeks ago with the owner of the Oakland Raiders, Mark Davis, and members of his staff. Mr. Davis has expressed interest in a possible relocation of his NFL team to San Antonio and we are engaged in preliminary due diligience. The agenda for this visit included a tour of the Alamodome and meetings with local business leaders.”
If Davis is going to use whatever leverage he has, the effort will have to involve making visits to San Antonio, Portland, and inevitably, Los Angeles. Heck, Minnesota leaders flinched big time just from a sighting of Vikings owner Zygi Wilf’s plane in LA. It doesn’t matter much that San Antonio is a small market. Football’s largely forgiving of that provided that there are enough regional corporate interests (Hello, Austin!) to bring in. San Antonio’s biggest problems are that the market is already a Cowboys stronghold (and Texans to a lesser extent), since the Cowboys have conducted training camp at the Alamodome on multiple occasions. Cowboys owner Jerry Jones signaled the difficulty Davis and San Antonio might face:
Jerry hadn’t heard about Raiders considering move to San Antonio, which is Cowboys country. “That’d be difficult for them to make headway.”
— Tim MacMahon (@espn_macmahon) July 29, 2014
I wonder what Jerruh and Mark will talk about during the joint practice sessions set for August 12-13 in Oxnard?
Beyond the pre-existing teams, San Antonio faces the same problem all other prospective Raiders host cities faces: they need a new stadium. The NFL has set the whole thing up so that a team really couldn’t move permanently unless a stadium deal is in place, since the NFL provides a large amount of financing. And that piece doesn’t come until the public/team portions are committed.
I’m more curious about the reactions from Oakland, Alameda County, and Raiders fans are than anything else regarding this trip. This is how the stadium game is played, nothing more.
Difficult for them to make headway, Jones says? Having the Cowboys a few hundred miles away should be better than having the 49ers 25 miles away in a brand new stadium
PJK, is San Antonio going to give Davis a free stadium? You do know that the Alamo Dome is a no go for the long-term? Also Houston is 197 miles from San Antonio. That’s like SF to Tahoe. It’s not going to happen. The NFL is not going to go for a team in the 36th largest market which would impact Houston and Arlington.
Prove that it is not going to happen, Elmano. I’d say the Raiders playing in San Antonio is far more likely than the team finding another $600 million+ to get a new stadium in Oakland that no one wants to pay for, wouldn’t you? No more second fiddle, with a more popular team a half hour away (Levi’s is closer to downtown Oakland than downtown Frisco).
San Antonio: 275 miles from Dallas; Oakland: About 25 miles from Santa Clara. Do the math.
Hey, Elmano: You’ve been furious at Lew Wolff for – gasp! – pondering moving the A’s a whole 30 miles away to San Jose. I’m sure you’re multiple times furious with Mark Davis for looking to move the Raiders 1,500 miles away, no?
Oakland shares the 6th largest market with the Santa Clara Forty Niners compared to having the 36th market in San Antonio for yourself.
Also, Levi’s Stadium is nothing attractive that any Oakland Raider fan should be jealous of. The place is a rather ugly 1.2 billion dollar monstrosity which will keep the Forty Niners heavily leveraged and mortgaged for years to come. The Yorks would love to have the Raiders be second fiddle and help pay the mortgage but Davis and Oakland Raider fans would never go for being second fiddle in that ugly stadium away from the fanbase.
Davis knows that if he builds a smaller less expensive stadium in Oakland and builds a winning team, he’ll come out ahead because he’ll control most of the geographic Bay Area due to the Niners being situated in the south portion of the Bay Area. That Levi’s Stadium 1.2 billion dollar monstrosity will weigh on the Forty Niners during those 8-8 seasons or those 5-11 seasons. No one is going to keep that expensive stadium filled with those expensive seats and that $50 to $40 parking.
Davis has the opportunity to get a strong hold on everything north of San Mateo and north of Milpitas with a smaller and less expensive stadium in Oakland and a couple of winning seasons.
When are you going to fulfill your repeated claim that you’re leaving and never coming back?
Will say though that the Wolff as “bad guy” storyline is over. In all his time as owner Wolff has never threatened to leave town. Davis has now threatened to move to LA and San Antonio.
Nav, TV market is irrelevant. This is the NFL, not MLB. They have teams in far smaller markets than 36.
Posted in the previous thread as well:
“Market size matters very little to the NFL. KC is the #31 media market,Cincinnati is #34, Buffalo is #51, New Orleans is #53, and Green Bay is #70.”
Threatening to leave Oakland and changing the name of the team is “threatening to leave town.” Wolff has been doing that for ten years.
San Jose and Fremont are still the Bay Area, or “town” Nav. LA and SA are most definitely not.
San Jose and Fremont are not in Oakland so they’re not “in town.” Unless of course, you have no respect for Oakland and its city limits.
So Mark Davis’ flirtation with Dublin and Concord, all while saying “I want to stay in Oakland,” is just cool with you? Hypocrisy abounds…
only 3 more months before Jean Quan can quit her mantra that we are working with both teams and we are close to moving forward on CC. Once the election is over and she is out of office then the truth will be revealed. In the meantime it makes total sense that Mark Davis visited San Antonio because CC discussions are going so smoothly as she claims. I have no idea how politicians can lie like they do but JQ continues to take it to another level-
Why am I not surprised? Elmano hates Lew Wolff for trying to move the A’s 30 miles but looks the other way at Mark Davis trying to move the Raiders 1,500 miles away.
Trolls are gonna troll.
re: Davis has the opportunity to get a strong hold on everything north of San Mateo and north of Milpitas with a smaller and less expensive stadium in Oakland and a couple of winning seasons.
…utter nonsense. These people will stay 49er fans if that’s what they already are….
Yeah. I am a 49er fan. As long as they are in the Bay Area (which should include my lifetime) I will always be a 49er fan. The idea that anyone roots for a team based solely on the city they play in is a ridiculous anachronism for the vast majority of fans.
The Raiders aren’t moving to San Antonio. I’d expect that they will next visit Portland (a city which already has a grass roots movement to try and attract the team) and eventually LA.
It’s my hope that Oakland doesn’t do the knee jerk thing and offer a shit ton of money to the Raiders. If they do, and if Alameda County is involved, I will be in front of the local big box stores with a petition in my free time to stop my tax money from being funneled to the the Raiders.
If the Raiders do move out of the Bay Area, it will be to LA. Portland as a last resort. My guess, not informed by anyone who would know at all, is that the Raiders will end up in Santa Clara after this season on an interim basis before they would end up anywhere else.
But Portland doesn’t have a temporary stadium, right? The AlamoDome gives San Antonio the ability to lure the Raiders immediately, and host them for a few years while a new football stadium is being built, or the AlamoDome is adding luxury suites, etc.
I could definitely see this San Antonio move happening. Building a stadium in Texas is a lot different than in CA…if Davis can extract hundreds of millions of dollars from San Antonio, I’ll bet Goddell and the NFL encourage the move. They want cities to continue to feel the pressure to pay for pro sports teams. A Raiders move sends yet another message to Buffalo, San Diego, St. Louis, etc.
I suppose they could play at Oregon State (45k seats an hour away).
Oregon State is nearly 100 miles away. Far more than 1 hour. They play in Corvalis. It’s not even in the same metropolitan area as Portland.
Carolina played their first season at Clemson, 136 miles from Charlotte.
If the Raiders ever move out of Oakland, the NFL will pony up the money for the team to come play at Farmers Field in downtown L.A.
Mark Davis’ attempted move to San Antonio is like his father, Al Davis, brilliant move to Irwindale back in 1987. NOT HAPPENING!!!
Hey, Al did get $10 million from that city to “think about” moving there. Not a bad deal.
It used to be Al shopped the team around to the highest bidder. Irwindale gave Al millions and got nothing. Oakland shelled out $200 million in 1995. Now, Oakland is telling the Raiders they will get $0.00 in public funds and even have to put down a $10 million nonrefundable deposit if they want to kick out the A’s. Times have changed…If San Antonio offers to pay for a new stadium (they already have a temporary place for the team), look for the Raiders to take this offer. It’s better than the $0.00 they are being offered in Oakland.
The thing that bugs me, and it isn’t aimed at anyone here but rather the lazy-as-always media, is the “would the league approve it????? would the Cowboys and Texans block it????????” nonsense. There’s been a federal ruling out there for 30 + years for crying out loud. If Davis had a billion dollars sitting around, he could move to downtown Dallas is he wanted to, and Jerry couldn’t do a thing. That’s obviously an absurd hypothetical, but San Antonio eventually getting a team, regardless of however legitimate this negotiation is or isn’t, is a very real possibility.
As for the Raiders, I don’t doubt that this is right now primarily a play to get his way in Oakland, but given the funding gaps that exist, not to mention the fact that everyone can’t even agree on the right concept for a football stadium, I think this gets more realistic everyday those hurdles remain. He’s not getting public money out of Oakland, LA or any other city, he doesn’t have enough ownership to raise an obscene amount of money by selling off a minority, and while I don’t know about a new stadium, San Antonio could probably pass the $200 million to bring the dome up to current NFL standards within the next two weeks.
RE: “There’s been a federal ruling out there for 30 + years for crying out loud. If Davis had a billion dollars sitting around, he could move to downtown Dallas is he wanted to, and Jerry couldn’t do a thing. That’s obviously an absurd hypothetical”
I think the operative word in you statement is “IF Davis had a billion dollars”
He does not have a billion dollars, unless he wants to give up controlling interest bin this team, and sense there is little public funding, in a general sense, he will need a league vote, why? Because he is going to need the NFL to kick in some money from there stadium fund, which usually runs around 200 million
So you are correct “There’s been a federal ruling out there for 30 + years”, so he can move to downtown Dallas, having the right to do something, and having the money to do it, are two different things.
Of course I say that, but I must agree with you, that there is, or eventually will be a real chance for San Antonio to get a team, if it unlike Oakland (most places in California), is willing to fork over hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars.
As the old saying goes “Money talks and bull sh*t walks.”
Absolutely – which is why a city like SA that would immediately spruce up the dome and *probably* even build him a new stadium within 10 years or so could certainly have some appeal to him. He wouldn’t need league money to go to SA, and I’m assuming after he’s there for a few years, they’d be eligible for it. All things being equal, I’m sure he’d rather stay in CA, but if it’s a free stadium he really wants, I think he can get it in Texas. And if he can get it, and isn’t looking for cash from the NFL, Jones and McNair won’t be able to do anything about it.
The old joke comes to mind: “I put a Raiders sticker on my broken vacuum, and now it sucks again.”
Anyhoo, Raider Fan should be looking at San Antonio as a legit threat. They’ve already piled up some good will via hosting the Saints after Katrina, and Bexar County has one of the largest Hispanic populations in the US, and the second-largest that is unserved by the NFL (Behind LA).
Plus, San Antonio has a reasonable temporary location all ready to go – which is something that neither Portland (Jeld-Wen/Providence Park) nor Los Angeles (Coliseum controlled by U$C, Rose Bowl event-limited) have.
It would require SA rolling the hard six to pull it off, but it’s definitely a reasonable position for the Raiders to take if LA isn’t viewed as a viable threat.
The Raiders are not leaving the Bay Area, at least for the short-term. After this coming season, the Raiders will likely be moving to Santa Clara while they try to figure out their long-term location plans.
Levi’s Stadium is already experiecing traffic gridlock. The traffic and parking as a nightmare for 28,000 fans who turned out to see the stadium. What’s going to happen when 65,000 fans show up in Santa Clara? This is what happens when you build a huge stadium in the suburbs where public transportation and parking are lacking.
San Antonio also has a horrible public transportation system. There is no subway or light rail in San Antonio. It’s just freeways, spred out ousting developments, strip malls, and buses. Good luck to Mark Davis with that scenario.
The Oakland Coliseum is the best place in the Bay Area for a large sports complex. The place is central to all of the Bay Area, has its own Bart station, has its own Amtrack station, a new Air Bart link to the airport and great freeway access.
Yes, I saw that letter to the editor about the traffic at Levi’s. This will not matter one single bit in any consideration by the Raiders on whether to move there. Think Mark Davis will think “There’s a brand spanking new stadium 25 miles away that I can use for as long as I want at a reasonable price. They will even give us our own locker rooms and probably find room for a Raiders Hall of Fame. But darn it. It will cause traffic jams for some people in Santa Clara so I guess we can’t go there.” Elmano thinks up the wildest so-called arguments to present Oakland as the be-all to end-all of all sports cities on the Planet Earth…San Antonio’s public transit system will matter not one bit in any considerations of a move by the Raiders to that city. What is reality is the Raiders would get a major city (larger than San Jose) and a market all to themselves, without playing second fiddle to a far more popular team within bicycling distance….So, Elmano, why are you not furious with Mark Davis for looking at San Antonio, and LA, and Dublin and Concord and who knows where else, but Lew Wolff looking at San Jose is simply unforgiveable.
One more thing, Chuck Reed admitted to Phil Matier that he had breakfast with Lew Wolff two weeks ago and Wolff told him that he thinks that a relocation to San Jose “is still going to happen.”
This is the same Lew Wolff who was negotiating a “ten year lease” in Oakland and telling Oakland officials he wants to be the lead developer in Coliseum City.
Wolff talks out of both sides of his mouth depending on who he’s talking to. Oakland made a huge mistake giving in to Wolff.
Elmano: Good thing Wolff is still looking at San Jose because the kind of support Wolff needs in Oakland – control of the Coliseum property – is absolutely anything but a sure thing. If that doesn’t happen the A’s will not get a new ballpark in Oakland. Oh – I forgot. There are other folks chomping at the bit to buy the A’s and build a ballpark at Howard Terminal for a mere total cost of $2 billion, with a very good chance the money is not made back. Silly me.
Was the quote that Reed thought the A’s relocation was still going to happen? Or was the quote that Wolff still thought the relocation was still going to happen? I guess it real doesn’t matter; Wolff has made no secret that his preference is San Jose, but if that’s something that can be done, perhaps he will go with the path of least resistance, which is the land in and around the coliseum.
I don’t really care what Wolff thinks of Oakland, as long as he builds a new A’s ballpark, somewhere (hopefully in Oakland), in the Bay Area.
Not that Reed, would not say whatever he needed to, after all he is a politician just like the rest of them. Not to say he hasn’t carried himself, with a bit more grace, then Oakland’s present mayor.
Reed said that Wolff told him that he thought the relocation was still going to happen. This is according to Phil Matier.
Reed has carried himself “with grace?” This is the Mayor of San Jose who has been trying to take the A’s from Oakland for ten years and who has cut benefits for public servants in San Jose. The police force in San Jose is down to 900 officers in a city of nearly 1 million residents.
While Mayor Reed has pancakes with Lew Wolff and continues his shameless pursuit of the Oakland A’s, San Jose suffers from not enough public safety employees.
Oakland has worse financial and public safety employee problems than San Jose. What’s your opinion of Jean Quan and the entire city council spending time in pursuit of the A’s?
The NFL will never let three teams play in Texas. They have too many NFL teams play in Florida. However, San Antonio is a serious threat for any NFL team to play there. Maybe the Chargers may look into that in play with the City of San Diego.
Problem is the NFL can’t stop any team that wants to move there. Al proved that 30 years ago.
The problem isn’t the ability to move, the problem is Mark Davis, doesn’t have enough money to build a stadium, without the NFL helping him, so back to problem number one.
I gotta believe that the his late father before passing, left some instructions or ideas on how to do the new stadium. MD does not look like the guy who can move mountains or have the money to do it his way.
First of all Elmano is on one to think Levi’s is not a jewel. Compared to Candlestick and the Coli it is a sapphire to behold. The concourses are huge with so many different selections of food/beer it is unreal. I am in section 108 or the lower bowl on the side of one of the end zones.
As a SBL holder I went to the open house and yes traffic was bad because it was dead smack during rush hour and the 49ers/Santa Clara made mistakes on certain lanes that needed to be closed that caused congestion and bad merges.
That will be fixed easily, granted it was only 28k of fans but there were 100s of thousands of commuters trying to go home at the same time. On a Sunday that place is a ghost town and 70k of people will be no problem.
You just have to take the right route to your parking lot. Unlike Candlestick and the Coli there are several different ways to get there.
The Coliseum is a dump period, whether it is for football/baseball or Monster Jam. Absolutely an eye sore that needs to be torn down, like Candlestick.
As for Mark Davis, no way he moves to San Antonio without a brand new 100% publicly funded facility. If SA can get voter approval for this with a hotel, car rental, or some kind of tax only then he is gone.
But does SA have the population/corporate base to raise that kind of money through taxes? That is a good question that if SA can answer and if that is a “yes”…..watch out Raiders fans, they could be gone.
Raiders fans are jealous of the 49ers. The Niners got their stadium and now hold the market in their hands with a great team and the newest stadium in the league.
Already angry Raiders fans should be pissed even more!
Levi’s Stadium is an ugly monstrosity. I wish it wasn’t because it cost 1.3 billion dollars and the residents of Santa Clara deserve better. That six story structure over looking the field looks like a soviet style apartment building from 1962. The exterior of the stadium is offensive to the eye with the exposed beams and staircases not to mention that huge box staring you in the face.
Then you have the lack of public transit, lack of close parking and the San Jose Airport flight path directly over the stadium and you have a very problematic situation for any team that doesn’t go 13-3 every single year.
The Coliseum is far from a dump and already has the luxury suites along with the East Side Club and the luxuries West Side Club with the huge bar and the big screen TV’s.
Sid, the Coliseum is nothing like the dump which was Candlestick Park. The Forty Niners truly needed a new stadium while Mark Davis just needs a field without second base at the fifty yard line.
Jesus christ you’re delusional. ACE Train and VTA Light Rail go directly to the stadium. The latter connects with Caltrain in Mountain View and will connect with BART in Milpitas once the new BART station is finished. Candlestick had literally none of those things.
VTA Light Rail gets people to Levi’s for a whole $4 round trip. Drops them off about 50 yards from the stadium, if it’s even that far. They’re even increasing the number of trips to the place on event days. Anybody hoping for the failure of Levi’s Stadium should already be disappointed.
Well lets be realistic pjk. Levis will have better transportation access than Candlestick due to 2 freeways instead of 1, the VTA link, and the Capital Corridor/ACE line. BUT, the VTA line won’t be able to handle the loads that say, BART does at the Coliseum. Not even close. It’s a light rail line, not mass transit.
Never mind that those things travel about two miles an hour.
niners with levi’s stadium in the fold i’ve read and heard will make the niners one of the top 3-4 most profitable teams in the league now. yeah i doubt they’ll be hurting much financially despite one’s post who think the niners will be in trouble having to pay off the 1.2-1.3 billion dollar bill. in fact i think the season tickets/luxury boxes along with the sponsorship has surpassed the niners expectations on what they possibly thought would happen once levi’s stadium opened.
i still find it hard to believe the niners would personally want the raiders to “rent” out levi’s. sure it’d be nice to get some extra money but will it be worth it considering you’re going to get a ton of niners fans pissed they’re sharing THEIR venue with the raiders who their fans may not have to pay as much as some season ticket holders to watch a game at levi’s along with gaining possible access to the many club levels.
kawakami was on nbc sports radio just in the past half hour and he said both the niners and raiders don’t want to be sharing the venue even though everybody will know it’s the niners home.
And now the Raiders want a roof for their never gonna happen Oakland Stadium again…
Does the term, “blood from a stone” not have any meaning for Davis and his partners?
It’s not the Raiders, that want a roof.
I said a bit more grace, the present mayor of Oakland. That’s not much
LET THE A’S GO!!!
Mount Davis was built for the Raiders not the A’s.
Wolff wants San Jose….fine build ur ballpark outside San Jose city limits but leave the Coliseum alone!!
At Marine Layer or anyone born before 1986.
I was born in 1986….how and why did the Raiders leave in 1982?? Are there any similar situation that u see that history could repeat itself?
They wanted luxury boxes at the Coliseum. Because Al didn’t get his way he moved the team to LA. The NFL tried to block the move, which resulted in an antitrust lawsuit that the Raiders won.
It’s not all that different from today where the Raiders need a handout to get what they want. They’re not going to get the handout so they may go elsewhere.
The following was cut and pasted from Wikipedia:
” … Prior to the 1980 season, Al Davis attempted unsuccessfully to have improvements made to the Oakland Coliseum, specifically the addition of luxury boxes. That year, he signed a memorandum of agreement to move the Raiders from Oakland to Los Angeles. The move, which required three-fourths approval by league owners, was defeated 22–0 (with five owners abstaining). When Davis tried to move the team anyway, he was blocked by an injunction. In response, the Raiders not only became an active partner in an antitrust lawsuit filed by the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum (who had recently lost the Los Angeles Rams), but filed an antitrust lawsuit of their own. After the first case was declared a mistrial, in May 1982 a second jury found in favor of Davis and the Los Angeles Coliseum, clearing the way for the move. With the ruling, the Raiders finally relocated to Los Angeles for the 1982 season to play their home games at the Los Angeles Coliseum. …”
So basically, Mr. Davis wanted the commission in charge of the Coliseum to make improvements and didn’t get what he wanted, so he bolted for Los Angeles even though an overwhelming majority of NFL owners disapproved. I guess the city officials at the time thought there was no way Mr. Davis could move the team, so they may have thought they had all the leverage in the world.
Slacker is correct, that’s what I recall. I was in the 10th grade at Oakland High at the time, I recall the city of Oakland being rather confident, because they were told by Pete Roselle, that the NFL, would never let the Raiders move to LA, Oakland was emboldened and refuse to give Al Davis the updates to the coliseum that he sought.
He kicked the NFL’s ass in court, the irony is that Davis never got what he wanted from L.A. either, which is why he moved the team back in 1995 to Oakland.
In further irony its mount Davis and the debt hanging over it, which may lead his son to move the team again, when it’s those vary suits his father could not get, the first time in Oakland, or in L.A., at all.
That’s one thing I can respect about Lew Wolff (unlike Davis), he does not seem to be waiting for a hand out, or any governmental municipality to do everything for him, weather he builds in Oakland, San Jose, or the moon, this is a man (I think), that understands the limitations of government and will get it done primarily on his own.
There are a lot of things I respect about Al Davis, but one of them is not, expecting, or trying to get municipalities to do everything for you, that being said, as much as it hurt when he left, part of me could see why, Oakland was stupid to not work with Davis and get something accomplished, instead they put all their eggs in the Roselle basket, what a shame 20 continuous years of sale outs down the drain.
re: San Jose suffers from not enough public safety employees. …,more of Elmano’s selective reporting. From NBC Bay Area recently regarding Oakland: The city had 837 officers six years ago but the number dropped to the low 600s recently because of layoffs and budget cuts.
A VTA trip from Campbell to Levi’s takes 30 minutes and operates like clock work. 6 of us will be taking it Saturday night to the Earthquakes game at Levi’s- gives us a chance to hang in downtown SJ before heading off to game- it’s pretty much the only way I travel to Sharks games- do t have to worry about drinking and driving or the traffic
re: Levi’s Stadium is an ugly monstrosity.
…This exact same stadium, had it been built in the Coliseum parking lot, would be considered the Most Beautiful Stadium Ever Built by Elmano. I doubt he’s even seen Levi’s.
Elmano will continue to play up the Coliseum complex’s BART access, because that is the one and the only advantage it has over sports facilities and prospective sites in Frisco and San Jose. It’s amazing George Steinbrenner didn’t relocate the Yankees to the Coliseum parking lot, given the amazing BART access.
Lol pjk. Have to admit u got Elmano there ( chuckling)
Who going to the Raider preseason game tomorrow? ??
All jokes aside. I do wonder if maybe the Raider and A’s players can come together at a Save Oakland Sports meeting or in fact a city hall metting re: the stadium issue..maybe the players can bridge the gap between the team management and city leaders/fans.
Coco crisp, maybe Khalil Mack and other players can help save sports in Oakland. Right ml?
@harry – Lay off the pipe.
Harry, it’s not a matter of making them come together. It’s a matter of money, or lack there of. Mark Davis has none, Oakland has none, and the parties they’ve brought in that have some aren’t just going to give it away like a charity (and neither is the NFL which requires public funding to secure G4 funds).
Unless the Raiders and A’s players want to chip in about $1.5 billion, they cannot bridge the gap on the stadiums. Khalil Mack might want to just rent in the East Bay rather than buy, given the uncertainty of where the team will be next year.
The Yankees also have a great public transit system next to their ballpark just like Oakland does. The Yankees decided to build in the same location they’ve been in for decades. The Yankees decide to build in the Bronx, in the poorest congressional district in the United States.
Also, besides havind its own Bart station, Oakland also offers a much more central location to the entire Bay Area, better air quality than Santa Clara County, better aesthetics closer to the Bay, closer proximity to the best restaurants and theaters in the Bay Area located in Oakland, SF and Berkeley. Oakland is much closer to the culture and amenities that make up the Bay Area.
The only attribute Santa Clara has over the Coliseum location is closer proximity to fortunate 500 corporations and Lew Wolff’s hotels.
“…The only attribute Santa Clara has over the Coliseum location is closer proximity to fortunate 500 corporations and Lew Wolff’s hotels.”
Which is all that matters in the world of business which baseball is.
What did I tell you people? Elmano waving the flag for the Coliseum’s public transit system because the BART access is the only area where it is superior to sites in Frisco and San Jose. O.co certainly can’t hold a candle to either ATT Park or Levis, Oracle Arena is dramatically inferior to San Jose’s arena, and San Jose’s downtown site trumps the Coliseum parking lot when it comes to a place for a new ballpark. Never mind that ATT, Levi’s and downtown San Jose all have alternative transit systems. Just not a BART station a couple hundred yards away….Better air quality than Santa Clara County? Aesthetics, theatres, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, the Warriors have already bought property in Frisco so they can leave the Enchanted Land of Oakland and the A’s are only looking at Oakland again because MLB is forcing it…As far as hotels, more and more NHL teams are staying at Santana Row these days than in downtown San Jose. Does Wolff own any of the Santa Row hotels? I don’t think so. There won’t be all that much benefit to baseball teams possibly staying in downtown San Jose 80 nights a year. A few more bucks or there. Meanwhile, opponents playing the A’s stay in Frisco. Those ball teams might end up at Santana Row, too….Once again, lots of Wolff-bashing by Elmano, no bashing of Mark Davis. Go figure.
Oracle Arena is “inferior” to the San Jose Arena? Really? You could’ve fooled me with that one. I was there recently and it looked stunning with all the fancy luxury suites and the VIP club down stairs. Oracle is a beautiful venue with nearly 20,000 seats. There is nothing wrong with the place. I like it much better than the antiquated San Jose Arena. I also like Oracle’s exterior much better.
Antiquated San Jose Arena. Haw haw. I’ve been in the renovated Oracle Arena with its hospital-like hallways, seating area that couldn’t even accommodate hockey, upstairs seats almost hitting the ceiling. Once again, put San Jose’s arena in the Coliseum parking and Elmano will call it the “crowning achievement in professional sports architecture of the 20th and 21st centuries.”
There’s no getting through to him. Nav is just here to troll,bitch and moan when he gets called out, threaten to leave and never come back, then post again almost immediately after that.
As you can see here the Coliseum City project is a huge transformative project. The project consisted of 790 acres. It really is a city. Brooklyn Basin secured 1.5 billon in financing from Chinese investors. What makes you think that Coliseum City won’t be able to attract foreign capital?
If Lew Wolff continues playing these games over pancakes with the Mayor of San Jose, Oakland should just proceed without Lew Wolff. This project is much bigger than Lew Woff or the Oakland A’s.
Click to access oak046851.pdf
Coliseum City, as in, $2 billion worth of new privately funded sports facilities plus commercial and other development to compete with Oakland’s existing downtown, requiring the acquisition of an additional 600 acres for which funding sources have not been identified, is pie in the sky, Elmano. Take away the sports arena (since the Warriors are gone) and it’s still pie in the sky.
How many people thought that Brooklyn Basin was “pie in the sky?” It’s happening. The land is being cleared and it’s going to be a beautiful addition to the Oakland waterfront.
I am not trying to be funny, I know you are, a big time passionate Oakland supporter, and I am right there with you. If there is any way possible that both the A’s and Raiders can stay at the coliseum site with new venues, I hope it happens, but surly we must be a little pragmatic about the situation, I am sure you’re an intelligent, person that sees the challenges facing Oakland (In this situation), not saying that the A’s and Raiders cant, or won’t make it work at the coliseum site, but surly you must see the necessity of retaining at least one of the three teams at this point?
“I am sure you’re an intelligent, person that sees the challenges facing Oakland (In this situation)”
You are sorely mistaken.
Of course there are challenges. The biggest challenge is the two ownerships who refuse to work together and instead are on a mission trying to push the other team out.
I just don’t subscribe to the anti-Oakland viewpoint that Oakland is “less than” and nothing can happen in Oakland. Broklyn Basin has already proven that international investors will invest in Oakland.
The problem in certain areas of the Bay Area is a prejudicial view of Oakland where the money movers refuse to invest in the city. This is where international investors who are free of the institutionalized anti-Oakland bias come in and realize that Oakland is a potential great ROI.
Since you grew up in Oakland and attended public school in Oakland, as I did, I’m surprised at your ambivalent attitude about Oakland and its sports franchises. San Jose is not Oakland and it will never be the same.
Sorry if you found my response to Elmano, in bad taste, I was not trying to be an ass, or perhaps I misunderstood your response to me.
I actually agree, with most of what you said in your response to me. I am sorry you fill I have ambivalent fillings towards my home town (it’s the politics in Oakland I have a problem with), I love everything about Oakland than can be loved about it, and I totally here you on, what other people in the Bay Area say and think about Oakland. I have always said the most negative view of Oakland comes from other Bay Area residents, whom have spent little or no time there, as matter of fact not only did I grow up in Oakland, I’m proud to say my family has called it home for eight generations (not that you want to know all that), but I’m just trying to keep an open mind about the situation and as much as it would sting a little bit, if they move to San Jose, it would sting a hole lot more, if it was San Antonio, or Portland.
Please don’t assume, that because I’m a frequently comment here, that I agree with the Anti – Oakland comments that can take place at time’s, I actually fill that the overwhelming majority of people here just want the A’s to have a new home, in the Bay Area, and they would be fine with it in Oakland.
Math lesson: Brooklyn Basin, “an asset valued at $1.5B at completion” is not the same as attracting $1.5B in investment. The investors have brought forth far less than that and the project will only reach full build out as demand justifies. The first 300 units are scheduled to be available in 2016.
Commercial and residential real estate can make money. Stadiums and arenas usually do not. Is there enough potential to build $2 billion worth of stadiums and an arena and still make money selling and leasing ancillary real estate there? Doesn’t look like it. This isn’t even factoring in the 600 extra acres that someone has to pay for…Who pays for any of this? Oakland with its depleted police force and $2 billion worth of unfunded pension liabilities? Not likely.
@pjk, don’t you ever get tired of talking to the wall? He’s clearly never going to listen to reason.
Is this the San Jose “reason” or the Oakland “reason.”
I happen to think that Oakland can and will retain both the A’s and Raiders with an outside shot at the Warriors. The Warriors still have 62 million in bonds to pay off to Oakland and they have been quiet as mice recently regarding their “SF relocation.”
Nav that has literally nothing to do with what brikz said. And if you think the Warriors aren’t moving you may legitimately be an illiterate conspiracy theorist type person.
you’re right. why am i wastinmg my time?
There’s still an “outside” chance that Oakland could pull a rabbit out of the hat. I’m still optimistic that the Raiders, A’s, and Warriors will see the light and play in Oakland for a long-term future. Though, it maybe too late.
@ Elmano: I like your enthusiasm about the Raiders, A’s, and the Warriors. Keep fighting bro.
Yeah have to admit it’s not over till its over maybe together Oakland cam defeat the San Jose crowd.
I just don’t think it’s about defeating San Jose (or San Jose crowd), it’s about Oakland getting it’s act together (city hall), the fact is what ever criticism anyone may have of Wolff or Davis, can we honestly say that the city of Oakland has been the best partners, and that they have no fault in this?
I appreciate enthusiasm form anyone, I just think we need to do more then say Oakland dose not suck, and ” if only Wolff and Davis would sit down and talk, all this would be worked out”, at this point we may have a real opportunity, with Wolff to develop the area at the coliseum, not the almost 800 acres that Oakland Alameda County don’t own or control, but the almost 200 acres they do, if any other parcels open up cool, but let’s start at what they do have and or control.
Wolff may not like Oakland (no one knows that), we know he would prefer to build in San Jose, but he may be willing to build in Oakland, dose it really matter if it’s his second, third, or fourth choice, as long as it works?
If Marky-Mark wants to hike out to SA to get a free stadium to replace the alamodome at full city expense, be my guest. He’d be playing 4th fiddle to: Cowboys, Longhorns, Texans, and would be perceived as the non-texan carpetbagger. Why do that when you’re the 2nd team in a Top-5 market where your roots are?
Basically, the idea of SA, Portland, Las Vegas lack any credibility as a threat. Nice little dog-and-pony show, but let me know when Mark goes down to LA.
Mark should get stuck sharing Levis because he’s too poor.
Probably because his “Top 5 market” hasn’t cared about him since 1981. There’s a reason the Raiders are dead last in NFL attendance and it’s not the Coliseum or even their play (since bad teams don’t keep fans away in most markets in the NFL). The Davis’ burned a bunch of bridges when they left in the 80’s and haven’t done much to endear themselves to anyone in the Bay Area since.
I slightly disagree. When they were really good with Rich Gannon and Tyrone Wheatley, they drew very well.
It was only after the team fell apart that attendance took a nose dive. We haven’t been back up ever since, and until that happens it’ll stay slow.
One caveat is whether that model is outdated thanks to High Def, fantasy football, and NFL Sunday Ticket.
If Marky-Mark wants to leave, please go. However, the City of Oakland should get a right to reserve to STRIP the Raider franchise’ identity like Cleveland did when Art Modell took the Browns to Baltimore to rename them the Ravens. I think that’s fair.
RU155. Good points.
OT- billy is going all in for 2014- sad part about this is even with a new ballpark in Oakland we will still be a small market team and getting rid of our top talent before free agency arrives for them will still be our top play
Yeah we would have gotten rid of Yohan C. after next season anyway just because as a small market team we can’t afford to award him a big contract. But I’m not mad at Billy Beane for going all in to win now and getting John Lester
A’s nation is feeling good. But I still wonder behind the scenes if silently Lew Wolff and his lawyers are still fighting to to free San Jose.
Billy Beane has gone mad. If this guy had a 150 million dollar payroll we’d never win another division title. The A’s win because Billy doesn’t have enough money to screw things up. Let’s take a look at Billy’s acquisitions. Jim Johnson for ten million dollars. We then have the Hamel and Samardja acquisition from the Cubs which has been pretty much a disaster. We gave away top prospects for these average to mediocre pitchers who don’t have command of their pitches, can hold leads, and in Hamel’s case, don’t have very good stuff.
Billy’s other mistakes include keeping Steven Vought in the minor leagues in favor of bringing up Derrick Barton.
The A’s win because they have to rely on unproven and unheralded players like Donaldson, Moss and Norris to develop and perform above expectations. If Billy had money these guys would never of had a chance to develop in Oakland and become the players that they are today. Billy would be spending millions acquiring names and expensive players who underperform. Billy spends and trades recklessly with a limited budget, just think what he would do with the Red Sox’s payroll.
Even though Cespedes was another of Billy’s expensive expenditures who underperformed the much less expensive Moss and Donaldson, he was the only one who showed up in the playoffs against the Tigers. Pitching wasn’t our problem against the Tigers. Our problem was that we couldn’t hit their top two pitchers.
Beane, had a left handed pitcher in Milone who had been pitching much better than his acquisitions from the Cubs and instead of keeping Cespedes and bringing up Milone, he trades Milone out of spite and because he can’t admit a mistake. This megalomaniac is going to ruin our chance at the playoffs with these irresponsible trades.
Billy Beane will also ruin team morale and team chemistry not to mention outfield defense with this irresponsible trade.
Lester tosses complete game shutout. A’s up 4 in the West. Beane has lost his mind?
re: Let’s take a look at Billy’s acquisitions. Jim Johnson for ten million dollars. We then have the Hamel and Samardja acquisition from the Cubs which has been pretty much a disaster. W
…I actually agree with Elmano on something. I think the Samardziaa??= Hammel acquisition has netted us 2 wins, 5 losses and 2 no decisions. We gave up one of our best prospects. We have Hammel serving up batting practice to opponents while Milone sits in the minors. Cespedes? Always liked to watch him play but he did strike out a lot. Johnson? An unmitigated, expensive disaster. It’s a wonder we’re still in first place. But we almost got swept in Houston this week.
This is a bad trade for the A’s. Cespedes showed up in the playoffs while Moss and Donaldson coudn’t even make contact, let alone get a base hit.
Milone was pitching great and was sent down to the minors so that Billy could make his horrible trade for 2/5 of the Cubs rotation. Why would anyone one go to the Chicago Cubs for pitching talent? A National League ERA means nothing in the American League. Also, ERA doesn’t show how well a pitcher pitches with a lead or how he pitches in close games. These guys from the Cube seem to pitch just good enough to lose and keep their ERAs down considering that the Narional League has basically 7 hitters in their lineups.
We are very lucky Billy Beane has a small payroll to work with or his full madness would really by unleashed.
This is a bad trade all the way through. Cespedes showed up when the team needed him.
HERE WE GO AGAIN?!?!?
Yeah I don’t get this trade at all. Cespedes is our playoff bat, Lester has a terrible record against the Tigers and is a rental. I’m not seeing the point of this. If they wanted an arm, just bring Milone back up. Billy is messing with perfection and I don’t like it.
Milone has been traded to the Twins for Sam Fuld.
Another WTF trade. I do not get Billy’s thinking on this. If they were chasing someone maybe, but the A’s are the best team in Baseball. What are they upsetting the apple cart for? Milone was a future starter for the team (or potentially starter right now if they dump Hammel). And Cespedes is going to go to Boston and be a superstar.
After thinking about it I like the trade for a few reasons:
-Cespedes is hot/cold kind of hitter and he stunk in July bad. If he is on, look out, but when he is off he is way off.
-Lester is a flat out stud, a #1 or #2 guy. He flat out mowed down the Tigers in last years ALCS even though he lost one game 1-0. Game 5 he pitched very well and he is the kind of guy the A’s need in the playoffs. A veteran who knows what it takes. Not to mention he pitched like maniac in the World Series, why Boston did not pay this man makes no sense to me. He is worth 20M a year.
-The A’s did get Jonny Gomes back who is a fan favorite and is not bad at all. He isn’t Cespedes but he is no scrub, he will do great as a utility guy and he is a known commodity with the A’s.
-The playoff rotation will be Gray, Lester, Samardzija, and Kazmir? Good lord, that is unreal, 2 hard throwing RHPs with two stud LHPs? Detroit nor anyone in the AL can match it.
Impressive move by Billy Beane, Lester is a straight hired gun but these kind of windows can be short and you have to take advantage.
A’s win the American League….
You need to talk my old man off a ledge. He thinks these moves sabotage the A’s and they don’t even make the playoffs.
I don’t think pitching was the problem against the Tigers. I hope these guys can pitch shutouts against the top two tigers pitching becuase Bille Beane has just weekened our offense.
Cespedes hit in the playoffs. He loves the big stage. This is another boneheaded move by Beane.
And Smaddzija is not a very good pitcher. He doesn’t locate his pitches well and can’t hold a lead in a tight game. He’s definitely not a gamer.
Crazy Wild Billy Beane has just cost us any chance of winning in the playoffs assuming we can make it as the Wild Card.
I like the move as well because of Cespedes hot/cold status. While the past few weeks he’s carried the team, overall he wasn’t the guy I’d want at the plate when they’re down, in the bottom of the ninth.
Cespedes would have been gone after next season anyway.
Pitching wins championships. I think it’s been more Verlander than a lack of hitting as to why the A’s haven’t gotten out of the first round. The A’s have the best rotation in baseball at this point.
I don’t get the Milone trade though.
Also, it sill is possible the A’s are only a wild card team just because of how well the Angels are playing. The A’s and the Angels are the two best teams in baseball right now.
Sometimes, I feel like the A’s are too much like the Sharks; it doesn’t matter who they bring in, how many championship caliber players, etc. They will still choke in the playoffs. Our last three playoff series have all been against Detroit, dating back to 2006, and we know how those have worked out. The A’s have a grand total of one playoff round win in the past 20 or so years. Even the Sharks have done better than that (albeit in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs.)
Yeah, it’s interesting about the A’s and Sharks, it does not seem to matter how much success they have, they just can’t seem to get over the hump. I am staring to have that sinking feeling about the Warriors recent run of success as well, which is why I wish they would have made the Love trade even with Thompson, but I guess in the Warriors case, it sure is better than they have done, for the most part in the last 40 years.
I have a message to Lew Wolff, Mark Davis, and Joe Lacob: The grass maybe greener on the other side of the park. However, once you get there, it’s nothing more than just a baseball infield.
The A’s are struggling right now mostly because of Beane’s acquisitions. I don’t think Samardigiza is very good. He can’t hold a lead facing a tough pitcher when runs are at a premium. He also can’t spot his pitches. I see Samardija just food enough to lose close games.
Another reason for the A’s losing consistently in the playoffs is that they stop stealing, bunting, and advancing runners. I think Billy may have a bit of Al Davis and Charlie Finley in him when the playoffs arrive. Billy may issue a no bunting and no stealing directive to the managers in the playoffs. This is why the A’s always lose in the playoffs. They stop playing fundamental baseball. They had a crippled Cabrera at third base last year in the playoffs and they refused to lay down even one bunt. Talk about hitting your head against the wall time after time and hoping for a different outcome.
@elmano- The A’s lose in the playoffs because in the Bud Selig era (since 1992) big market teams who spend big win big.
Only the 2003 Florida Marlins won a WS as a small market team since Bud Selig took over as Commissioner.
Detroit has a huge payroll and veteran players and you need those kind of guys to win in October.
Look across the Bay and the Giants are in the same boat. Big name players with big salaries…..2 WS titles in a 3 year span.
The A’s are young and the hope is with Lester (a proven veteran) they can make the leap over Detroit.
The A’s hitting has been great this year, Cespedes does not fit the Moneyball role as his OBP sucks.
I for see where Beane is going with this. Lester is a proven starter in the playoffs and he is now the #1 guy in the rotation. This takes pressure of Gray, Kazmir, and Samardjiza.
A’s have to hope they avoid Detroit until the LCS this year. That way Lester can pitch against them twice.
The A’s don’t bunt at all, or steal very much in the regular season, it’s not like they get to the playoff and stop doing those things. You do have a good point about Cabrera and last year in the playoffs, which was maddening, that they would not at least try to bunt down the third base line, but I guess if you don’t do it in the regular season, you’re not going to all of a sudden learn how, or do it in the post season.
Don Nelson, Al Davis, Billy Bean, big fans of all of them, for a verity of reasons, but if I had a one problem with each of them, they all seem to have a problem with control, I think all of them were a little too stubborn, I guess I should give Al a bit of a pass, it lest he won championships.
@Sid: Disagree about the giants – they were likely the overall 10th best MLB team in 2012. They were proof that MLB playoffs – similiarly to the NHL – can be a crapshoot. Their offense was very low powered when compared to other post season teams – how that team won the WS is still mind boggling.
Not throwing shade on the Giants, but I agree with you, those Giants teams were not very good, but they won it all, and since that is the ultimate goal congratulations to them.
But yep, you’re right…
no more super teams in baseball . Any teams can win it now if things go right for your team. Zito was done after signing the big contract but somehow had a miraculous season in ’12 . After Zito blanked the Cards in game 5 in St Luis, I knew they would win it all. When baseball gods like you, anything can happen. The A’s and Beane need some luck or hope that the baseball gods like them this year. Weird stuff can happen in baseball.
I here you, here is hoping the baseball gods are smiling on our Oakland A’s in 2014.
@duffer- The Giants in 2012 had proven war horses in Cain, Lincecum, and Bumgarner, Affeldt, Casilla, Romo, and Lopez who all pitched in the 2010 World Series.
When you have “experienced” big name pitchers who have won it all before it makes sense why they were able to win it all again.
Barry Zito was unreal that year and he earned every penny of the 133M the Giants doled out to him just because of that one season.
Zito, was once a big name pitcher who won a Cy Young, he was supposed to be the Game 1 starter of the WS when he signed his contract.
The A’s lack this big time, while they have guys who have post season experience, none have WS experience like the Giants do.
The Giants, if they were to make the playoffs would be dangerous because of this.
If you see the trend of teams who have won the WS since 1992 (When selig took over), you will see teams built like the Giants were.
Great pitching, timely hitting/defense, and big payrolls.
The A’s do not have the big payroll to win right now, this is why the traded for Lester.