03.27.17 by Marine Layer 31-1 Fallout to come. Share this:Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window)Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window)Like this:Like Loading... Related
Ultimately Oakland could only play this shell game of trying to keep all 3 teams for so long. Sad reality is that all 3 could have stayed in the bay area if Oakland hadn’t dicked around for so long with bullshit proposals–lets hope they don’t screw it up with their last remaining franchise.
This sucks for Raiders fans (and I’m not trying to rub it in) however this is probably the best news for the A’s and A’s fans. I see a small pinprick of light at the end of the tunnel. As usual, though, I await shovels in the ground.
The Dolphins, listed as the only no vote in one report I saw, had been listed as a definite “yes” vote in another report the other day… Now that the major obstacle (the Raiders) to the A’s is getting out of the way, let’s get rid of the Howard Terminal nonsense and move forward on a new A’s ballpark and ballpark village at the Coliseum site.
like i’m guessing most a’s fans i’m a big proponent of building any new a’s baseball only park away from the coliseum location. doesn’t matter if it’s howard terminal or laney, wouldn’t mind either location although prefer howard terminal.
but realistically and if i had to be honest with myself have always felt the a’s would build at the coliseum location.
it won’t have anywhere near the wow factor a waterfront and or downtown park would have.
just have to hope if the coliseum site is where a park is built they do a extraordinary great job of building not only a world class park but somehow creating an atmosphere both inside and outside of the park that makes it a destination location.
i have a hard time believing such a thing can happen in that part of the city of oakland.
there is still some slight hope due to kaval’s subtile hints over the last few months on social media that the a’s will pick howard terminal but i wouldn’t bet on it.
I am with you.
At this point, if the A’s choose to build at the Coli site it will be a massive disappointment. That does seem most likely though, largely because of the ancillary development opportunity.
Like father, like son — a traitor to the core. Goodbye and I hope you fail spectacularly.
For the A’s, I just hope this doesn’t take the wind out of the sails of Howard Terminal or Laney. The Coliseum is better than nothing, but I’m hoping for something more integrated with a real neighborhood.
I would caution those who are saying this smoothly paves the way for the A’s to get something done in Oakland.
The dysfunction that exists between the city and county of Oakland, and the Coliseum Authority, hasn’t gone away. And to their credit, the politicians are unwilling to negotiate a bad deal for their citizens to keep pro sports anymore. They wouldn’t cave to the Raiders when it was obvious they had other options (Vegas); they probably won’t cave to the A’s since it’s obvious the A’s don’t appear to have other options.
I doubt anything is built for the A’s prior to the expiration of their current 10-year lease, which expires (iirc) in 2024 or ’25.
Questions for the crew now that the Raiders are unofficially officially history:
1. Once the Raiders leave, will Mount Davis be dynamited?
2. Once the Warriors move over to Chase Center, will Oracle Arena remain?
3. Will the perfect (HT, Laney) become the enemy of the good (Coliseum)?
2. I’d expect it to stay for a while, at least. It will be interesting to see how many events that used to be SJ for a night, Oakland the next night become SJ for a night, SF the next night. That will ultimately determine if the arena stays long term.
3. I honestly don’t think so. I think the A’s will end up at the Coliseum with an adjacent development, because it’s the path of least resistance.
Why submit to the extra expense and red tape of Howard Terminal, not to mention its lack of BART access and other issues, when the Coliseum is all theirs now? Warriors, Raiders both going. A restored view of the Oakland Hills will have to suffice as scenery just beyond the stadium. And that’s not such a bad deal.
@ pjk “Why submit to the extra expense and red tape of Howard Terminal, not to mention its lack of BART access and other issues, when the Coliseum is all theirs now?”
Because the Coliseum site sucks for baseball. And because this is a 30-100 year investment. A downtown location adds energy and will help keep the ballpark a destination through the inevitable down years. If you’re taking a long view (and the A’s should do so), the extra investment may easily justify itself.
Also, you persist in ignoring the Laney College site, which, which it also presents challenges, also offers a downtown site with views, close BART access, no environmental contamination and avoids the need to deal with port regulatory authorities.
Who pays for the 9-figure cleanup of HT, if it’s even feasible? How do we know that, after a 2-year study, it won’t be determined that the site simply doesn’t work? Lew Wolff said it would be easier to build on Treasure Island. What about the mile+ walk (?) to BART?…As I said, I don’t know much about Laney…. If we want a ballpark some time within the next 5 years or so, then the Coliseum site is probably going to be it. The A’s could build a ballpark village with restaurants, retail, etc around the site, which will no longer be encumbered by accommodations for football and basketball teams.
Today’s Big Losers: The Giants. We know they wanted the A’s gone from the Bay Area. Now, the A’s might very have a brand new ballpark that’s just a 20-minute or so BART ride from Frisco, right when ATT Park starts aging. Oops. Hey Giants – you wanted the A’s in Oakland and not 45 miles away in San Jose? Looks like we can do that.
That’s the funny and beautiful thing about all of this. The Giants extreme hard line about their T-rights to SJ, intended to either force the A’s out, or keep them stuck sharing a football stadium with the Raiders, thus keeping them a week competitor, is now going the bite the Giants in the ass.
So now the Giants are going to contend with much stronger local sports franchises – the Warriors in a brand new state of the art arena practically next door, and the A’s just 20 minutes Bart ride away, where they have a city that’s on the upswing all to themselves, with a new ballpark on the horizon, while, as you say, AT&T will be aging and certainly less “trendy”.
To that I say:
And this sort makes the timing of Kaval’s most recent promotion, for bandwagon Giants fans to trade in their Giants caps for brand new A’s ones, all the better.
Right about now Larry Baer and Charles Johnson are going F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#! F&$#!
Amen. Maybe the Giants will form a “Stand for Oakland” citizens’ group to fight an A’s ballpark again – this time in Oakland?
That was funny.
Hopefully this puts the last nail in Larry Baer’s dream scenario that would buy out the A’s TV rights, give the Giants a permanent monopoly and let tickets rise above Wrigley/Fenway prices.
doubt that the midgets p.o.s. franchise/front office or their idiotic fan base are all that scared about the a’s building a park anywhere in oakland honestly.
sure their ultimately goal was to drive the a’s out of oakland starting with not allowing the piccnini group from buying the team in the late 90s and this whole fiasco they pulled with that anti park group that was funded by them with the south bay project.
but they’re loaded right now off the field with money and power it this market.
even in a realistic scenario the a’s will be a distant #2 in this market in baseball unless they come up with a similar type dynasty where they win multiple world tittles and even then the local media here has it so up in their butt holes for those clowns around the bay it won’t matter much for them if the a’s were to win a championship or two within our lifetimes.
Meanwhile, BART is creeping closer and closer to the Giants’ precious Santa Clara County “territory.” Warm Springs very soon, San Jose next. Taking people from San Jose, Milpitas, etc to the New Coliseum or whatever it’s called.
Warm Springs opened last weekend!
The Raiders are making a great short term bet but an awful long term one. It took them 20 years to rebuild their fan base in Oakland.
Does Vegas seem like a good idea on the surface? Yes, 1B reasons why between the hotel tax and infrastructure money LV is doling out to get the team.
Long run? This is a major mistake the NFL will live to regret. LV is full of uneducated transients who do not have the $$ to spend on Raiders PSLs. Nor does LV have corporations to buy suites and premium seating.
How does Davis expect to pull a profit long run? Forget the fact all his players, coaches, and management team will be tempted by the gambling, prostitution, strip clubs, and clubs open all night.
Fans will not be able to tailgate outside in August/September and first part of October cause of the heat. How does Davis expect 30K of fans to fly in, pay for hotel, go to the game on a Sunday no less and go home?
As for the A’s, they won. Lew Wolff made a brilliant move by signing a 10 year lease and gave Oakland zero commitment to building anywhere.
He pulled a CYA by saying the Raiders could kick him out when he knew full well Oakland would never pick sides between either team.
Now Oakland, you lost the Warriors and Raiders. You have 1 team left and if they had a choice would have been in San Jose 15 years ago.
Time to step up kick the Raiders out now, and start discussion for a new ballpark on the Coliseum site. Let’s the A”s have the land and ancillary development. Let them start now.
The Coliseum would be the easiest, cheapest, and quickest place to build the new ballpark, but I think the idea of creating a “ballpark village” is a fantasy that will not happen. It’s very difficult to create such a thing out of nothing that looks and feels like it was meant to be there and that will draw anyone for more than a quick meal after the game. Maybe that’s okay and the A’s would get a nice new stadium with great access, but it would not be very exciting and would still not compete with AT&T Park for the casual baseball fan.
Laney is intriguing but I haven’t ever seen anything stating that the Peralta College District would actually agree to sell the land and, if they somehow did, how their facilities would be made whole with a ballpark there.
HT would have a terrific location and JLS to draw fans after the game, but lack of BART access would be hard to overcome, unless they could build a BART line down from 12th St. Still, how would it be paid for and how long would it take?
It seems that Kaval really wants to do something exciting and long-lasting, that will really be a part of Oakland, which means Laney or HT or another site in that area. But the temptation to just build it at the Coliseum will be hard to overcome.
All of this is why I expect the A’s to build at the Coliseum. Put an “Airport” Hotel and Conference Center close to the BART connector and that goes a long way towards making it worth it for the A’s (assuming they own the hotel and hire an operator).
A full service hotel generates around $20M a year for rooms and food, etc. The Bay Area is a bit higher on the scale than most and adding a conference center to the mix… that would be a sweet bit of revenue.
The mixed used development would be icing on the cake.
would that mean visiting teams actually would stay in the city of oakland when they play the a’s and not stay in hotels for 3-4 days across the bay?
probably still unlikely.
Boy, this 20-yr relationship with the Raiders has really cost the A’s in wasted time. It’s not all the Raiders fault, as we all know that the various mayors, County, city people are either incapable or have other priorities (despite the lip service).
That said, the rest of us believe that sports contribute to the well-being of Oakland and East Bay. While we don’t want to use tax dollars to subsidize professional result (most of us), we’d like to see results in a new stadium. For this reason, I remain very skeptical about the the construction of any facility in these parts. It will be harder than we think.
I have to tip my hat to the Giants and SF financiers. They properly assessed this situation in the late 80s/early 90s and went for it (credit John Fisher too, lol). They’ve amassed such a lead (in TV revenue deals, attendance, sponsorships) that my opinion is that it will take anywhere from 8-18 years to get the A’s into the type of organization that can compete for championships.
In many ways, the Giants are the true “Moneyball team: in the Bay Area.
The new facility will take a few years to re-build the fan base, get new TV deals etc.
In the meantime, I do imagine that the A’s will a some division titles, and possibly go to a ALCS. I wouldn’t expect much more. Nor did anyone else when the A’s won division titles over the last few years, even with the MVP caliber talent they had.
Nevertheless, see y’all on Opening Night.
Was just listening to 95.7 where a caller called in to blame (drum roll, please) – Lew Wolff, for the Raiders leaving. He tied the Raiders up for years, this guy said. Um, the A’s never stood in the Raiders way and even had an out clause in their lease should the Raiders meet a couple of conditions and want to build a stadium…What nobody seems to be saying today is, Oakland is a city about the 3rd the size of San Jose, that got into professional sports on the cheap in the 1960s. Now that the time has come for new facilities – and I’ve said this before – Oakland simply can’t foot any of the bill for the $2 billion worth of new facilities it would have taken to keep the 3 teams. And the state of California is of no help (nor should it be). Was the mayor at fault for not committing $$ Oakland can’t spend? No. Was Mark Davis at fault? He did what all the other owners do and tried to squeeze money out of his city. If anybody’s at fault, it’s the NFL for expecting cities to fund these football palaces used very little by very few people…Meanwhile, I think Oakland and San Diego could come out smelling like roses if interest in football diminishes (maybe it has already?) now that people know the players are getting their brains beaten out on the field.
So sad. Raider fans didn’t deserve to get done like this.
None of this deal makes sense, going from the 6th largest market to a small, market? A Las Vegas Raiders home game scenario has the potential to be similar to college bowl games – stadium 50% filled, with the away team getting most of the fan support. Davis could have used his $600 mil towards building a budget stadium at the Coliseum site ( simple solution) – instead towards a domed stadium in Vegas with a dicey chance of success. Screw the Raiders – go Niners!
The NFL has done this before, moving from Houston to Nashville, LA to Saint Louis. Butte, Montana could probably get an NFL team if it built a taxpayer-funded $1 billion stadium. Apparently the next team that will face a pay-for-it-or-we’re-gone ultimatum is the Buffalo Bills…95.7 last night put forth a not-so-altruistic theory on why the Dolphins may have voted to on the Raiders to Vegas: The Dolphins attract people from cold weather cities to go see their team in Miami and spend a week at the beach. Some of those folks may now head out to Vegas for such an outing now.
Also the fact that Raiders will the only major pro sports franchise at Vegas (the NHL will go there in 1-2 years also) will help. Even so, the NFL appears to have a craving for new $2 bil. stadiums with all the bells and whistles. They likely could have worked out a deal to finance a no-frills stadium at the Coliseum for under $800 mil. Similarly to San Diego, a low cost stadium deal likely could have been done there also (although the Chargers owner Spanos might be chiefly responsible to that situation)