Saturday’s post on the Diridon tour included a quick note from me about the Giants:
I’ve given this some thought the last few days, and I think that if the Giants win the boost in ticket and merchandise sales could provide enough economic ballast to make arguments about economic hardship somewhat moot, at least for a few years.
The Merc’s Tracy Seipel reports that premier sports economics experts Andrew Zimbalist and Roger Noll (co-editors of Sports Jobs & Taxes) think that the Giants’ success will actually be good for the A’s, insofar as Lew Wolff’s designs on moving them to San Jose.
“To the extent that the commissioner’s office would be concerned about the Giants’ financial well-being if the A’s were allowed to move to San Jose,” said Andrew Zimbalist, a Smith College economist and baseball expert, “that concern would by allayed given the success the Giants have had.”
Zimbalist estimates the Giants will net between $13 million to $16 million from their share of ticket sales and concessions for the postseason and World Series.
“The owners want it (a team) to be as economically successful as it can be,” said Zimbalist of the A’s proposed move. “And I think fundamentally that is what Selig is looking at — if he think’s it’s a plus economically.”
There are also quotes from Noll, CSUEB professor Paul Staudohar, and South Bay cheerleader Larry Stone. From the inception of the blog, I’ve driven home the point over and over again that it is always about the big picture. How does MLB benefit best? And if the answer to that question means breaking thousands of Oaklanders’ hearts, they’re not too concerned about it. That’s the sad part of it all. People demonize these billionaires for hating Oakland or wanting to destroy it. It’s much worse. They simply don’t care one way or another. It would be one thing if they cared enough to hate Oakland, but they are in fact completely indifferent. That’s not to say that they (other than Wolff) love San Jose. They don’t. It’s just a better economic opportunity there.
Last week I posted that I felt the Giants’ success is a blip, not something that should shift MLB’s long-term thinking towards the A’s and Giants. If the indicators point to a South Bay move, and Noll and Zimbalist are right about the World Series boosting and stabilizing the Giants, then yes, the Giants’ arguments are moot. Down the road, I wonder what this means for compensation. If the Giants are sufficiently covered in the short-term by revenue hikes from this WS win, is long-term compensation for territorial rights valued more or less?
P.S. Despite not participating in this year’s playoffs, A’s players will get something out of it. Since they finished 2nd in the AL West, the players are entitled to a whopping 1% share of the annual players’ pool. That should boil down to $9,000-10,000 per roster spot.
newballpark.org 
THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT! But even if the Giants were in the same realm as, say, the Pirates or Orioles, I still say an A’s move to SJ makes to much; for the financial health of not only the team but the league as a whole.
Heck, an argument could be made that an A’s move to SJ would make more sense for the G’s if they were in the same boat as the Pirates (no pun intended); possible guaranteed franchise value, revenues, and yearly compensation from the A’s.
Meant to say “to much sense” above.
your so write. there argument falls a part because their not pour, there really rich. the giants better prey that the brc already rapped their report before the playoffs so their recent cash inflow has no affect on their recommendation. now wii got too weight until december. homonyms are fun.
well played
Long term I agree with ML that directly the win is just a blip. Short term however I’m still of the opinion that this win will be a small disaster for the A’s at least at the gate. The Giants have pumped up their own fan base and sucked up a large portion of the at large casual fanbase that did not “pick a side.” Additionally the press has bought into them so much that on 3 occasions in the last 24 hours major news outlets in the Bay Area (KNBR, KTVU Ch 2, and the Oakland Trib), 2 of which are based in Oakland conveniently forgot that the A’s exist. And if professional press who are paid to know things can’t remember that the A’s exist because the Giants did well, how is Average Joe casual fan supposed to remember or care the A’s are around.
Now if the A’s have an attendance dive (which I expect), it could indirectly help the notion that the A’s need to get out of Oakland even further along, which could then influence the BRC just a little further toward the SJ option if that’s where they’ve been leaning or give them pause if they’re leaning Oakland. (But that assumes they decision won’t be made prior to next season). And long term again if there is an attendance drop and SJ is not opened up to the A’s it could eventually be one more piece of the puzzle that leads to the A’s leaving the Bay Area.
@ Dan I agree. If the A’s are denied access to San Jose, or the ballot measure fails in March, I think it will be the beginning of the end for the A’s in the Bay Area. I don’t think Fischer and Wolff will make an attempt to get something done in Oakland or Fremont. .
Ed: Contents deleted. Obvious flamebait.
Ed: Contents deleted. Obvious flamebait.
Moe… Neukom. And, he doesn’t have veto power over Territory. Bud Selig does. Oakland supporters need to get this through their heads… If you are pinning your hopes on the Giants being able to block a ove you are banking on the equivalent of sub prime mortgages. You may want to educate yourself.
@Moe A’s – If you want to get all emotional and make ad hominem attacks like “What’s there to do in San Jose anyway?” there’s not much to do other than strike those comments. If you want to be a grown-up and have a rational debate, I’m cool with that.
Dan – strongly agree with you. The past few days (maybe it’s been weeks, but i just noticed) all the VTA buses in San Jose have “Go Giants” written on the bus numbers….kind of alarmed me. So many bandwagon Gnats fans…
One bit of news on this election day is that Perata is leading Quan so far for Oakland mayor, but it is too early to tell the winner. If Perata wins, the A’s fate in Oakland is pretty much sealed already….
what did the trib do? think everybody knows about what ibanez on ktvu and lurie on knbr said last night. in fact it was posted at lieberman’s blog and one of the posters said ibanez is an a’s fan? hah, funny because when he does his reporting on most nights he’s on he’s so energic for sf’s highlights with him using nicknames for different players and has a mellow tone when he does the a’s like “okay lets show the a’s highlights now” type of mentallity.
http://richliebermanreport.blogspot.com/2010/11/mark-ibanez-responds-to-as-snub.html
Hey man, first off, love the site. I check in every other day or so.
Right now I have the mindset as an A’s fan that its San Jose or bust at this point. Has anywhere else even come close to wanting the franchise? I’ve heard Portland and Las Vegas, but I’m out of the loop as to what they, or anyone else for that matter, have done in terms of gathering an MLB team.
San Jose would be pure gold. Selig knows this. I just hope he makes his decision soon so I can stop having anxiety attacks 😀
I’ll be rooting for the San Jose A’s in a few years.
Now that Don Perata, who has taken a cause-is-already-lost attitude about the A’s, is going to be mayor it is time for the Oakland-is-victim crowd to accept the fact that the people you voted into office time and time again (like Jerry Brown) have deliberately dropped the ball on the A’s. It’s time to get behind the A’s in San Jose.
Have to agree with pjk.
And even if they don’t I don’t think it matters. Disinterested Perata getting elected is just another piece of ammo against Oakland for the Blue Ribbon Panel to use. The Oakland city leadership will be useless to the A’s for another 4 years which is far too long for the A’s to wait. I’ll preface what I’m going to say with that I think the best option left is SJ, but it seems to me that the cards are quickly stacking up against Oakland. Disinterested leadership confirmed for a further 4 years, Giants more secure financially due to the win than they’ve been in the last decade (not that they weren’t plenty secure before). Attendance likely to be down even further in Oakland this year. San Jose’s leadership VERY interested in the A’s. Cisco and Wolff willing to spend the money in SJ, but neither has said anything on Oakland meaning SJ has at least good part of their funding already in place, Oakland has none. San Jose has a site picked out and partially bought, Oakland hasn’t even picked a site yet. Corporate base in SJ outnumbers Oakland by several times.
I’m sure there are other things I’m missing but you get the idea. I’m not saying San Jose doesn’t have issues with their bid, but fact is, they’re really the only bid for the team on the table in the Bay Area.
Also of note from last night, if I’m reading the propositions correctly, Prop 22 passed. Which means the state can no longer leach off city redevelopment funds like they did to San Jose last year thanks to Ahnold (the same leaching that put SJ’s and most other city’s redevelopment agencies into financial trouble).
Don Perata has not won. RCV results will be tabulated throughout the week. It could be very interesting to see what happens with peoples #2 and #3 votes.
Perata is not the Mayor of Oakland as of yet. Reading about Oakland’s voting system, I got to say… WTF?!?!?! It is an exercise in how to take a straight forward thing, like an election, and turn it into a total cluster f$%#. Rebecca Kaplan could win by being most folks third choice? Really?
Actually it makes alot of sense if you read into it. San Francisco and many other cities have been doing it for years. Handing over the election to someone who took less that 40% of the vote is undemocratic.
handing the mayorship to someone who was 20% of the people’s choice is more undemocratic. I imagine, the real rationale is to avoid the cost of a runoff election. Which, I guess could make sense. But if the result is Rebecca Kaplan winning the election after receiving 20% of the vote, or Jean Quan after winning 24% of the vote… I don’t see how that is any better than Perata winning with 40% of the vote.
PJK — I think it’s safe to assume that most Oakland voters, including baseball fans like myself, had a lot more to consider than the A’s when choosing which mayoral candidate to vote for. Crime, public pensions, job creation–these, among other issues, were what voters were thinking about as they went to the polls, not the A’s. You can frame that as Oakland voters being indifferent to their baseball team, but that’s a specious argument. I would very much like to see the A’s stay in town and build a new stadium here. But as an Oakland homeowner with a family, I have a dozen other concerns that will always trump baseball. I, or anyone else, would be foolish to let my affinity for a sport be the guiding force in a mayoral election (though there probably was a time in my life, years ago, when it would have been).
More to the point: Even if the most commited keep-the-A’s-type were elected mayor right now, would it really matter vis-a-vis the A’s? Or would he/she simply be tossing a Hail Mary pass as time expires on the clock? If the answer is “yes” to the second question–which I and a lot of others believe it is–then there really was no reason for the A’s to be a consideration for any voter.
So if the A’s are not a priority, then let the A’s go to San Jose. Let’s stop with the “Wolff Hates Oakland” and poor, poor victim Oakland nonsense. Oakland and Alameda County have know for 15 years or so that the A;s need a new ballpark and have not only chosen to do nothing to make that happen, they’ve deliberately impeded it.
Looks like the Raiders are still a priority, though, based on that big study that came out about a new stadium for the Raiders.
As I mentioned on the last article the Giants winning it all is such perfect timing for the A’s to San Jose. Name me an owner who will show sympathy to another owner who just won the World Series??? Versus a owner whose team is on major “welfare” from MLB every year?
The Giants debt service on ATT Park ends in 2017 and the A’s ballpark will not be ready in San Jose until 2014-2015. Therefore only 2-3 years would remain on the debt service by the time A’s physically move to San Jose.
With the Giants cashing in on the World Series and as ML points out the benefits will run for the next 2-3 years from this via sponsorships and season ticket sales.
Right now the South Bay is 2/3 Giants fans 1/3 A’s fans. When the A’s come to San Jose that # will flip and the coverage in the Mercury News will flip as well.
If the A’s get Chris Carter and 1 or 2 more players to hit “decently” for them they will win 95 games next season and start a big push towards the new stadium.
Look at the Giants this season, the formula to win it all lies in great starting pitching, good middle relief, defense, and a great closer.
You can have a bunch of “misfits” hitting wise in the playoffs because if your pitching is so good you can hit .237 as a team in the playoffs if your opponents are hitting .196 like in the case of Giants playoff opponents in 2010.
.196!!!! Good lord that is bad! You can even take away Atlanta as Philadelphia and Texas hit .216 and .190 respectively against Giants pitching and they had “great lineups” as most would point out.
The A’s have all the same strengths the Giants do but need just a little more hitting. Hopefully 1-2 of their younger players step up this season and they will be on their way to the playoffs.
The Giants and A’s are very similar and I think we could see a all Bay Area World Series sooner than most would think.
Plus it’s not like the Giants love the south bay enough to celebrate with their alleged territory…
“Giants executive Larry Baer was asked if a Giants’ victory parade also would be held in San Jose, where the franchise maintains “territorial rights.” Baer responded with a polite “no” to the question, posed by Bay Area News Group columnist Mark Purdy.”
Great! I was also wondering if the Giants would hold a parade in their San Jose “territory.” Maybe they can hold ’em in San Mateo, Palo Alto, downtown Santa Cruz, Monterey. All Giants’ “territory,” right?
What Matt wrote above is pure Gospel! There’s no way that the Oakland-only crowd, especially those who live outside of Oak, can counter that opinion. Awesome post Matt!
By the way, you can “win” the Oakland mayoral race but still “loose” it? Wow! Oh well, it doesn’t matter anyways.
Hats off to “Da Man!” Mark Purdy for putting Larry Baer pn the spot; asked Baer if there would be a Giants WS parade in San Jose (you know…T-Rights), “Baer responded with a polite no.”
So I guess we’re not the “heart” of the Giants fanbase after all. FREE SAN JOSE!
I (a non-expert) agree with the experts. The Giants winning the WS couldn’t come a better time for San Jose.
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It shows that there are a lot of potential baseball fans out there — enough to support two teams in the Bay Area. And it makes it much harder for Nukem to cry poor (not to say he won’t try).
I made the comment a few weeks ago that if the A’s go to SJ but win the WS in Oak in the next few years, that LW would have a parade in SJ. Not so far-fetched, huh? Likely, he’d have one in Oak, which he wouldn’t attend, fearing eggs and tomatoes thrown at him, and one in SJ where Reed and company will kiss his ass and treat him like a King.
Dan and pjk beat me to it! ;o)
re: eggs and tomatoes
Who would throw the eggs and tomatoes? Oakland residents who consistently vote in politicians who don’t want to do anything for the A’s? How is that Wolff’s fault?
Oakland is like a kid who cries victim when he fails a test after sleeping in class and not studying at all . Gets his parents to hire a lawyer to go after the teacher.
Just heard that the A’s took out a full-page ad in the Chronicle to congratulate the Giants. Perhaps matters are already settled?
Nam, one can hope. It does seem odd they’d do so, however the A’s marketing department has been doing similar things online for several days on Facebook and the like (usually to bad result since the vast majority of comments after the congrats are negative). Granted it costs money to do a paper ad so who knows. Maybe issues are resolved now and we’re in the final days before the “go to SJ” is signed off on by the blue ribbon brigade.
I’d say that ad is a very good sign.
Don’t get the Chron. Can the A’s congrats be viewed online?
I’m sure if the A’s won a WS Championship the Giants would have taken out an ad in the Trib. Doubt the ad will have a negative effect on their fanbase, and It just puts the organization in a good light.
FC, I don’t recall them doing that in 89…
@Dan
But they did. I have the clipping in my scrapbook of things no one cares about.